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Author Topic: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?  (Read 4646 times)

John_Lackner

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A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« on: February 01, 2010, 10:33:13 pm »

I'm in the process of spec'ing an outdoor PA announcement system that needs to cover a baseball field - with one or two horns. Just announcements only - no music. I noticed there's dozens to pick from. Any personal favorites? Something that would match up with a Crown 160MA or something similar.
Also, another question - if it's only one horn would it be better to wire it 70 volt or 8 ohm if the cable run is about 40 feet?
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Tim A Perry

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 10:58:14 pm »

John Lackner wrote on Mon, 01 February 2010 22:33

I'm in the process of spec'ing an outdoor PA announcement system that needs to cover a baseball field - with one or two horns. Just announcements only - no music. I noticed there's dozens to pick from. Any personal favorites? Something that would match up with a Crown 160MA or something similar.
Also, another question - if it's only one horn would it be better to wire it 70 volt or 8 ohm if the cable run is about 40 feet?



It will be pretty hard cover what you need with one horn, you probably want to get the stands plus at lease some of the field.

A single point cluster of horns might be practical depending on what you have to work with. I.E light poles, press box, score boards, etc.

Atlas Sound makes a wide range of units that should fit your needs.

If someone mentions Speco just hit them with whatever is handy until they go away.

If possible always go with a 70 volt system as nearly always someone gets a bright idea to add to the system sooner or later.... like the boosters want to hear the announcements while working in the concession stands.  
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 07:43:59 am »

Are you trying to cover the field or the audience area-or both?

Most systems try to keep energy off of the field and only on the audience area.

That will make a big difference in which way you go.

Define your target FIRST, then look for the proper tool.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

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Ivan Beaver
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Brad Weber

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 12:23:26 pm »

To add to Tam's and Ivan's comments, considerations such as providing the required level to all listeners, and perhaps not to where you don't want it, should be the driving force behind selecting the speaker(s).  Without knowing the potential speaker locations, the areas to be covered and so on, there is not much basis for any specific recommendation.

If they just want something to make sound and don't care if it can actually be heard or understood, then one speaker is probably as good as another, it may end up replaced soon anyways when they decide they do actually want everyone to hear and understand what is being said.
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Brad Weber
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John_Lackner

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 01:27:55 pm »

It would be primarily for making announcements to players on the field. There's no audience area, and the horns will be mounted on top of the snack bar next to the field.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 05:37:56 pm »

John Lackner wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 13:27

It would be primarily for making announcements to players on the field. There's no audience area, and the horns will be mounted on top of the snack bar next to the field.

We have no idea where the snack bar is-maybe you do? Rolling Eyes

If it is behind home plate-then a single horn will probably cover the area fine.

Be sure to get it up high enough so you kill the people around home plate.

Edit-snake/snack-same thing to some people around here. Laughing
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Art Welter

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 07:35:14 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 15:37


Be sure to get it up high enough so you kill the people around home plate.

You have something against umpires or catchers, Ivan Laughing ?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 08:46:48 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 19:35

Ivan Beaver wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 15:37


Be sure to get it up high enough so you kill the people around home plate.

You have something against umpires or catchers, Ivan Laughing ?

I don't know if helping to protect their hearing will help their eyesight or not-but it can't hurt Laughing
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Brad Weber

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 09:54:04 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 17:37

We have no idea where the snake bar is-maybe you do?

Right next to the iguana lounge?
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Brad Weber
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 07:45:26 am »

Brad Weber wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 21:54

Ivan Beaver wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 17:37

We have no idea where the snake bar is-maybe you do?

Right next to the iguana lounge?

I've edited it.  But to some people around here-it is the same thing Laughing .

The Snake bar-is that a gay club? Rolling Eyes
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
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Danley Sound Labs

Rain Jaudon

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 10:14:09 am »

Thanks for the morning laugh fellas..


And what a shame it is that no one comes out to watch the team play... (ie. no audience areas)
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Tim A Perry

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 11:26:53 am »

Rain Jaudon wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 10:14

Thanks for the morning laugh fellas..


And what a shame it is that no one comes out to watch the team play... (ie. no audience areas)



Who eats the snacks?
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Don Boone

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 01:05:33 pm »

Quote:

Most systems try to keep energy off of the field and only on the audience area.



I did a college girls softball field and the sound on the field was much more important than the stands. I glad they mentioned that more than once or I would have really screwed up. They played quick music clips to fire up the team. Covering the 100 seat stands was secondary. I used a 90 degree Community R for the field and a Atlas AP30 for the stands. The community leaked a lot of low end off the back so the stands sounded pretty good too.

Be careful using multiple speakers at multiple locations. If they overlap you will likely have serious intelligibility problems from hearing the same sounds with different arrival times. The same college has a baseball field with 2 Cobraflex horns on light poles at first and third base. There is a thin line from home-plate to dead center field where the sound is OK. Otherwise it sounds like that old Lou Gehrig newsreel clip.

Don
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 05:34:00 pm »

Don Boone wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 13:05

Quote:

Most systems try to keep energy off of the field and only on the audience area.



I did a college girls softball field and the sound on the field was much more important than the stands. I glad they mentioned that more than once or I would have really screwed up. They played quick music clips to fire up the team. Covering the 100 seat stands was secondary. I used a 90 degree Community R for the field and a Atlas AP30 for the stands. The community leaked a lot of low end off the back so the stands sounded pretty good too.



EXACTLY why it is VERY important to define the goals-BEFORE any design work is to be done.

On the Atlanta Braves system redo that I was involved in-they wanted as much energy as possible to NOT be on the field.  They would like to hear nothing if possible.

We succeeded in getting about a 15dB reduction on the field.  And that was with 430 loudspeakers working.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Don Boone

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 03:51:24 pm »

Quote:

EXACTLY why it is VERY important to define the goals-BEFORE any design work is to be done.



It would have helped if I could have gone to a game to see how they used their old system. They play short clips between batters to fire up the team. Which made their weird request for a DJ type dual disc CD player perfectly logical. They ended up using a MP3 player.

Don
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn? Different target now?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2010, 09:15:12 pm »

Don Boone wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 15:51

Quote:

EXACTLY why it is VERY important to define the goals-BEFORE any design work is to be done.



It would have helped if I could have gone to a game to see how they used their old system. They play short clips between batters to fire up the team. Which made their weird request for a DJ type dual disc CD player perfectly logical. They ended up using a MP3 player.

Don

OK maybe I am confused.  In your origional post you talked about wanting an announcement system, but now you are talking about music.  VERY different things-unless you like the sound of music through a paging horn.

Once again-DEFINE the target.  It looks different than it did earlier.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Don Boone

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Re: A good, loud, intelligible outdoor PA horn? Different target now?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2010, 01:51:07 pm »

Quote:

unless you like the sound of music through a paging horn


Don't you work closely with a speaker company that makes horn speakers suitable for music ? Very Happy

The Community does pretty well with music. Paging horn for the 100 seat bleachers is mostly so that parents can hear there darlings announced when coming to bat. Plus plenty of low end leaks out the back of the Community. So the bleacher system is Bi-Amped.  Laughing

Don
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