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[Tim Weaver]

BJ and the Barrig

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

 

[Marlow Wilson]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 19:33

Dave Rickard wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 16:12 benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 14:03 Dave, I really dont have much of a budget. Things are and have been tight. I'm not opposed to putting some aside when possible, as long as I know its going to be worthwhile and pay off. I think I need a bigger rig to open up my possible clientele. Taking out a small business loan could possibly help in more ways than one, if practical. Just a thought for you--   If it's not feasible to do this and make a decent profit, then it's not really feasible at all. (Whether you reinvest your profit in your gear or take it home as income is your choice.) What I keep hearing is basically "get a bigger rig to supply sound for bigger bands, that have more money to spend". So its either bar/club bands, or something bigger and better.

I disagree.  To make money you need to fulfill a demand in the market.  If anything people are telling you to find a niche, and you are hearing I need more stuff!

Virtually no one earns a living providing sound for bar bands.  Some make money proving bigger systems while others earn money with little to no equipment.

A couple examples (based on real people)

Soundman A:

Owns an O1v96, some powered wedges/SOS speakers, cabling, mic, DI, etc.

Does mostly corporate work running A/V for charities, religious groups, and companies.  He rents what he needs for the clients within their budget.

Overhead: Lets say $10,000

5 hour minimum fee: $200 but recently $250

Average fee for a days work: $350 (including advancing equipment, etc)

Soundman B:

Owns a Behringer board (it's big!) some random old JBL speakers as mains, Peavey mains as monitors (they don't have a wedge angle), dusty and mismatched EQ, etc. (you get the idea)

Overhead: Unfortunately, I think about $10,000 (plus he needs his truck)

minimum Fee: Lucky to get $15-$20/hr (no minimum)

Average fee per day: Does odd-jobs and works long hours so lets say $200.

Soundman C:

Owns up to date DJ gear, various analogue and digital consoles, properly powered and well recognized rig, and smaller SOS rigs.  Good well taken car of Eq's, Comps, FX, etc.

Overhead: $35,000

Minimum fee: won't get up for less than $150, but not as good a soundman as A or B.

Average fee: $350 (balance between 3/4 SOS dry-hire and 1/4 Bigger stuff)


What's my point?

Soundman A has the greatest skills and least equipment.  He appeals to clients with money, and doesn't have to 'sell' his wares.  He'll get you whatever you want. Soundman B bought too much random crap that no one really wants to use, but thinks its great.  Soundman C has great gear but does mostly SOS rentals.  A large part of his overhead is only for a small part of his current business.

Bigger is not better.  As soon as you have a bigger system it will be too small for the next thing you want to do.  Moreover, you need to follow a demand for a bigger rig.  You can't just build it and hope that the phone will ring off the hook!

You need enough rig for the gig, but the question is - do you need that gig?

I've made more money off SOS and DJ gear rentals than anything else.   You are adding gear that no one in your current market will pay for.  You'll need to spend $250,000 before you can compete with the regional sound co's who probably get most of the work you're dreaming about doing.

Stay small and learn... it's nice down here.  


Just my thoughts,

Marlow

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Marlow Wilson wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 19:21

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 19:33 Dave Rickard wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 16:12 benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 02 February 2010 14:03 Dave, I really dont have much of a budget. Things are and have been tight. I'm not opposed to putting some aside when possible, as long as I know its going to be worthwhile and pay off. I think I need a bigger rig to open up my possible clientele. Taking out a small business loan could possibly help in more ways than one, if practical. Just a thought for you--   If it's not feasible to do this and make a decent profit, then it's not really feasible at all. (Whether you reinvest your profit in your gear or take it home as income is your choice.) What I keep hearing is basically "get a bigger rig to supply sound for bigger bands, that have more money to spend". So its either bar/club bands, or something bigger and better. I disagree.  To make money you need to fulfill a demand in the market.  If anything people are telling you to find a niche, and you are hearing I need more stuff! Virtually no one earns a living providing sound for bar bands.  Some make money proving bigger systems while others earn money with little to no equipment. A couple examples (based on real people) Soundman A: Owns an O1v96, some powered wedges/SOS speakers, cabling, mic, DI, etc. Does mostly corporate work running A/V for charities, religious groups, and companies.  He rents what he needs for the clients within their budget. Overhead: Lets say $10,000 5 hour minimum fee: $200 but recently $250 Average fee for a days work: $350 (including advancing equipment, etc) Soundman B: Owns a Behringer board (it's big!) some random old JBL speakers as mains, Peavey mains as monitors (they don't have a wedge angle), dusty and mismatched EQ, etc. (you get the idea) Overhead: Unfortunately, I think about $10,000 (plus he needs his truck) minimum Fee: Lucky to get $15-$20/hr (no minimum) Average fee per day: Does odd-jobs and works long hours so lets say $200. Soundman C: Owns up to date DJ gear, various analogue and digital consoles, properly powered and well recognized rig, and smaller SOS rigs.  Good well taken car of Eq's, Comps, FX, etc. Overhead: $35,000 Minimum fee: won't get up for less than $150, but not as good a soundman as A or B. Average fee: $350 (balance between 3/4 SOS dry-hire and 1/4 Bigger stuff) What's my point? Soundman A has the greatest skills and least equipment.  He appeals to clients with money, and doesn't have to 'sell' his wares.  He'll get you whatever you want. Soundman B bought too much random crap that no one really wants to use, but thinks its great.  Soundman C has great gear but does mostly SOS rentals.  A large part of his overhead is only for a small part of his current business. Bigger is not better.  As soon as you have a bigger system it will be too small for the next thing you want to do.  Moreover, you need to follow a demand for a bigger rig.  You can't just build it and hope that the phone will ring off the hook! You need enough rig for the gig, but the question is - do you need that gig? I've made more money off SOS and DJ gear rentals than anything else.   You are adding gear that no one in your current market will pay for.  You'll need to spend $250,000 before you can compete with the regional sound co's who probably get most of the work you're dreaming about doing. Stay small and learn... it's nice down here.   Just my thoughts, Marlow

You don't neet to buy any more gear, it's not going to get you any more money in the bar scene in Phoenix.  

Marlon brings up some good points although his approx prices are not anything like the Phoenix market but thats okay, its a good example anyways.

Put it this way, If you are a hard worker, have decent mixing skills and a good knowledge of how to setup and use many different rigs AND can handle long days in 110 degree weather, you can make a lot more money working for others than you can by providing your gear to a bunch of drunks in a dive bar.  That being said, proding your gear to a bunch of drunks in the dive bar is a great way to build up your chops.

You need to completely disregard anyones advice regarding gear when it comes to relocating because it is the least of your concerns.  You need to have a living budget first and then work to meet your personal demands first.  

Oh, BTW, I make more money with my P.A. on Sticks than with my big rig that has lots of great gear and takes several hours and people to set up.  I own 12 speakers on sticks and hope to have at least another 12 by the end of the year if things keep up like they are right now.

[Jake Scudder]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Phoenix (actually Tempe and Gilbert) is home to the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences. I went to school there and have nothing bad to say about the place.  That said, that market is flooded with students and recent grads who weren't smart enough to leave or who didn't get a gig.  You will find a lot of competition for bar gigs from kids who are willing to mix for free.  

I started in Phoenix as a mixer but I specialize in musical theater so it's a whole different ballgame.  I did ok in Phoenix and made contacts that have shaped my career.  There is, however, a pretty solid cap on how much you can make there as a mixer.  I won't speak to the audio provider side--my aversion to gear ownership is well documented here.

Moving in June/July?  Bring your mittens.  You'll find out why I'm not kidding.  

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

When I was speaking of adding more gear, it wasnt for bar gigs. My bar rig as it is now, has proved to be fine  for the last year and a half. If I add more gear, its to get OUT of the bar scene. So Ryan, you are suggesting I work for someone else? Fine with me if I make decent money. Need a helper? Haha.

I dont know, I guess I'll just feel the situation out when I get there. Realistically, the only changes to my rig that I will be making this year is the addition of good cases (finally) and thats really about it aside from some very small accessory type things.

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 13:20

When I was speaking of adding more gear, it wasnt for bar gigs. My bar rig as it is now, has proved to be fine  for the last year and a half.

From what I gathered, you don't mic most of the drum kit and maybe don't put the guitars in the PA.  That is fine for some customers but a lot of the bands here would not pay for that.  Your market may differ I guess.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 14:15

benjamin fisher wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 13:20 When I was speaking of adding more gear, it wasnt for bar gigs. My bar rig as it is now, has proved to be fine  for the last year and a half. From what I gathered, you don't mic most of the drum kit and maybe don't put the guitars in the PA.  That is fine for some customers but a lot of the bands here would not pay for that.  Your market may differ I guess.

Not sure where you got that, but I do. Normally, its 2 guitar, bass, kick, 2-3 vocals. Rest of the drums or overheads when needed.

[Jeff Wheeler]

I didn't think you owned drum microphones besides a Beta 52 or whatever?

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 14:59

I didn't think you owned drum microphones besides a Beta 52 or whatever?

I dont, but a buddy loans me his Audix kit when I need it. When I dont need it all (more than not), I just use my e602, it sounds pretty good til I get a d112 or something.