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Author Topic: New Cases Coming....  (Read 11151 times)

(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2010, 04:14:52 pm »

Ok Tim, makes perfect sense. Even to me, surprised huh?!


BTW just a side note...my amps are Crown XLS's. Nothing fancy, Simple, Basic.
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2010, 04:18:15 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:14

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?


Sorry, missed your post. I mean, my FOH speakers are run off an amp in bridged mode. And I run in mono, not stereo. Make sense?

Ai Ai on the cables mentioned above.

I was told on another forum that I can go from my main mixer out, into the 266xl, then into the crossover, etc...to prevent my amps from clipping when they are out of sight....no?
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

Tim McCulloch

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2010, 04:35:23 pm »

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:18

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:14

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?


Sorry, missed your post. I mean, my FOH speakers are run off an amp in bridged mode. And I run in mono, not stereo. Make sense?

Ai Ai on the cables mentioned above.

I was told on another forum that I can go from my main mixer out, into the 266xl, then into the crossover, etc...to prevent my amps from clipping when they are out of sight....no?


No.

Do a search (did you see this coming?) on "limiters system protection".  Most program compressor/limiters are far to slow to protect HF drivers.

The amount of limiting required to keep your amps from clipping will make your system sound bad, particularly since I suspect you're using your rig to near maximum already.  Besides, clipping doesn't kill speakers, long term overheating, instantaneousness high voltage, and mechanical over-excursion are what kill speakers.

Tim "Search Cop" Mc
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Art Welter

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2010, 04:42:25 pm »

If you plan on using the DBX 266 for protection, at least use one side on the crossover high output and one side on the low output. Using it off the main mix sounds bad, kick drum hits at threshold limit vocals, vocals hitting threshold, squashes bass and kick, etc. etc.

Running your system in mono has nothing to do with amps being bridged.

You are planning to have two high speaker amps (speakers are not FOH, which stands for “front of house”, a location you seldom put speakers at) and two low (“sub”) amps, so splitting them left and right could be done whether they are bridged mono or dual mono.

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(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 04:43:12 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:35

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:18

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:14

benjamin fisher wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 13:56

Really, DSP/crossover at FOH? I coulda sworn a few people told me to keep them with the amp. Maybe just preference. FOH sounds better to me anyway.

I've got XLR only returns on my snake, but my current crossover is only TRS, so some conversion has to be done. I wasnt sure if an adapter is better than a patch cable.

Also on the topic, I want to put one channel of my dbx 266xl on my entire system, to prevent amp clipping (especially once they are on stage and not FOH any longer). Should I keep that compressor at FOH as well?

DSP/crossovers in the amp rack make for less patching, but less convenience when it comes to adjusting them.

A patch cable with a TRS on one end and an XLR is an adapter, and a better choice than a TRS/XLR barrel adapter and mic cord hanging on the back of a TRS only crossover.

A single limiter on the whole system is not going to prevent amp clipping.

What do you mean “I run my FOH bridged mono.”?


Sorry, missed your post. I mean, my FOH speakers are run off an amp in bridged mode. And I run in mono, not stereo. Make sense?

Ai Ai on the cables mentioned above.

I was told on another forum that I can go from my main mixer out, into the 266xl, then into the crossover, etc...to prevent my amps from clipping when they are out of sight....no?


No.

Do a search (did you see this coming?) on "limiters system protection".  Most program compressor/limiters are far to slow to protect HF drivers.

The amount of limiting required to keep your amps from clipping will make your system sound bad, particularly since I suspect you're using your rig to near maximum already.  Besides, clipping doesn't kill speakers, long term overheating, instantaneousness high voltage, and mechanical over-excursion are what kill speakers.

Tim "Search Cop" Mc

Ok well I guess I will have to look for another option, as I dont want my amps clipping when I cant see them. And save the 266 for vocals or something

Searching  Twisted Evil
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2010, 04:46:28 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 15:42

If you plan on using the DBX 266 for protection, at least use one side on the crossover high output and one side on the low output. Using it off the main mix sounds bad, kick drum hits at threshold limit vocals, vocals hitting threshold, squashes bass and kick, etc. etc.

Running your system in mono has nothing to do with amps being bridged.

You are planning to have two high speaker amps (speakers are not FOH, which stands for “front of house”, a location you seldom put speakers at) and two low (“sub”) amps, so splitting them left and right could be done whether they are bridged mono or dual mono.



Ok, I see what you are saying, but its kind of confusing me due to what Tim just posted about the compressor. Maybe what you suggest is a different story (high AND low)

Sorry for my poor terminology.
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

Tim McCulloch

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2010, 04:53:23 pm »

Let me put this a different way.

System protection is mostly about protecting your speakers.  Amps are self-protecting, up to a point.  An amp that is regularly clipping means You Don't Have Enough Rig for the Gig
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(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2010, 05:03:42 pm »

Thanks Tim, I get what you are saying now. I'm also reading a good thread right now, getting me up to date with this situation.

I'm not really having problems right now, however I could use some improvement on setting up the gain structure and perfecting a few points. That will come soon I'm sure.

Thanks for all the help its much appreciated


**EDIT** LOL I originally put "thanks mike", I just got a phone call from mike and was scatter brained
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

Art Welter

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2010, 05:08:40 pm »

If your system headroom is set properly, your main console meters will give you a good indication of how much headroom your amps have left.
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(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: New Cases Coming....
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 05:10:23 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 31 January 2010 16:08

If your system headroom is set properly, your main console meters will give you a good indication of how much headroom your amps have left.

Thats what I need to work on a little more, its almost there. Once I have it correct, it should vary gig to gig should it?
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH
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