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[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Its time for you guys to enlighten me once again and grace me with your intelligence. I'm getting a bit bored and tired of my current "business" which is running sound for mostly small bar bands. I am moving to Phoenix in June, and I am kind of thinking about doing something else, and diving into the equipment rental and rehearsal space side of things. I've done some research, thought out some plans and ideas, but would like some input on this. Obviously I would need to get a small business loan to get things up and running. I will basically be working by myself for the most part.

Heres what I can tell you so far:
As far as the equipment rental, I want to mostly supply equipment to small-mid size bands and venues. Atleast for the time being. So that means, I dont want to be renting out EAW systems and the similar. Again, atleast starting out. Mid grade (junk to most of you on here), simplistic, and portable systems. A few mixers (8ch-32ch), single and dual 18" subs, matching tops, and proper amps. Along with mics, stands, small lighting rigs, etc.

As for the rental of rehearsal space, I'd like to start with 5 or so rooms, but the space to add more when needed. Geared toward local bands needing a budget friendly space, rented by the month, and also offer discount pricing for PA's for these spaces.I would also like to offer a larger "live room" with stage and standard PA, for larger bands and/or more important events to get ready for. These would be rented by the day. The plan would be to allow bands renting monthly to be able to leave their stuff there, 24/7 access, security, etc.

I would also be for hire as an engineer. And a "shop" within would be great for me to have a place to build and sell road cases. My better half also does screen printing, so she could not only have room to do her thing, but also be in connection with possible bands needing shirts.

What are some things I need to think about and consider? What are some of your suggestions about me taking (or NOT taking) on this business. Please discuss.....

[Art Welter]

Benjamin,

It would be unusual to find an existing building that is set up properly for band rehearsal, you need to have rooms that are acoustically isolated, an expensive proposition when you consider heating and cooling (very important in hotter than hell Phoenix) .
The rooms also need easy access to load in and out, most bands will be using the same stage gear for rehearsal as on the gig.

The build out needed for 5  bands to rehearse at the same time is quite expensive. The amount that a band is willing to pay for that space won’t allow a payoff for quite a long time. You would need a lot of money set aside to afford such a proposition, and it will never be a very high return on investment, even at full occupancy.

Most bands will have some sort of PA that they can use for rehearsal, hard to get any money for a practice PA.

I once read that the average length of a band being together is six months. Long term rentals are probably not going to happen, so count on holes in occupancy.

Art Welter

[Tony "T" Tissot]

Suggest you call and talk to operators in areas with high concentrations of these places. Like San Francisco, LA etc.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Art,

Thanks for the reply. Allow me to clarify a few things to help out. Granted I have only been to one place that rents rehearsal spaces, and that is where I've gotten several ideas from. They had a main hallway from the front door in which the bands loaded in/out through, and in each room they had a window air conditioner to cool each room. Heating isnt really going to be necessary for me, so this should keep costs down, concerning the running of AC ducts and whatnot.

I am prepared to build these rooms, as I dont expect to find a building sufficient for my usage. I've read around alot on proper isolation, and studio techniques, so I've got a few ideas for that.

To be honest, I have no clue what a building would go for rent wise around here, let alone Phoenix, so I am kind of in the dark at this point.

As far as the PA goes, thats not a big concern of mine. I just figured I COULD offer a discount if they needed one. Just a simple powered mixer and 2 monitors would suffice. I am a firm believe in only needing monitors when practicing.

I'm not looking to do long term rentals, which is why I'm leaning towards monthly rentals only.

--------------------------------

I am thinking insurance would probably go up a good bit if I were allowing the bands to keep their stuff in "their" room, right? Just one more thing I've thought about but have no solid confirmation or information on. I plan to have cameras in the parking low, hallway, etc. As well as Security alarms on the door to each room.



Any other input is greatly appreciated. I want to cover all the bases before diving into this. And any tips/suggestions concerning equipment rental would be great as well!

Thanks Tony, I will have to do that. Good idea.

[Adam Schaible]

On the other side of this (renting a rehersal space) -- $150 - $200 per month is my budget.  Not sure if rates there would be any different.

[Art Welter]

You will want liability insurance so that you don’t loose your ass-ets when some drunk bass player breaks his ankle moving his SVT over the air lock threshold and sues you for whatever.
Cost of insuring random band gear could be in the same range as what you might rent the space for, that ain't gonna fly.

So you are prepared to build the rooms, are you prepared with permits, a licensed electrician, etc.?
If you have not done a lot of building, take your cost estimates and double them to be in the ballpark.

You will be competing with the usual no to low cost band options, somebody’s garage or a cheap band house that half (or all) of the band lives in.

Monthly rentals on 5 units would require 60 bands a year.
There are some music meccas that have enough bands to support such a venture and provide a return on investment. Do you think Phoenix is one of those places?
Do you even know 60 bands? I do, but can't think of one that would pay to rent a rehearsal room.

Talk to some local booking agents and find out what they think their bands would pay per month for a rehearsal place.

Then add up all the build costs, your rental costs, and see if it looks like you can make money.

I watched three different rehearsal space places come and go in Minneapolis/St.Paul, which has  tons of working bands. In each case, the operator thought they could do it better for cheaper and make decent money doing it. In each case, they found out they could make more money per hour with less headaches flipping burgers.

[Ned Ward]

A thought - you may want to look at what spaces are in Phoenix and then offer something better that doesn't have you competing in the lower end of the market.

SIR in LA does mostly backline rentals, but they have some rehearsal spaces that include full PA, monitor, video and lights - there's also enough space for a crowd or guests to do a private listening party. If you can offer multitrack recording of a band, that can also be helpful; or even a CD-R of the band. Or shooting a video of the band's performance - again all helping to put you above the competition.

I'm not suggesting this is the model to follow, but I'd be very wary of trying to compete with the $15/hour places (going rate at the place near me in LA). What passes for gear in these places is bottom of the barrel, but the people renting these rooms don't seem to care - or bring in their own gear.

Sounds like a business plan is in order. Research insurance, permits, zoning restrictions, HVAC costs, etc. before committing. You may find the breakeven costs are significantly higher than you think.

[trace knight]

I am currently in a 10k sq ft building, if divided up into 5 units of 2000 ft each, and add the cost of air/heat and insurance, the base operating cost is around 4500.00 a month, add a reasonable profit and you'd have to rent space for around $1-1.3k per month minimum for that space, hardly seems that your gonna many bands with that kind of dough! Keep in mind that these are very rough estimates, but it's not a real money maker in my opinion, or there would be way more rehersal studios all over the country.These costs don't even begin to bring into consideration the remodeling needed for isolation.The last rehersal studio I was in was in a 12 story building, every other floor was rehersal space,skipping a floor for isolation, when all bands were there at once, what a train wreck!

tk

[Tony "T" Tissot]

trace knight wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 13:36

I am currently in a 10k sq ft building, if divided up into 5 units of 2000 ft each,

The one "we" (actually a lithium-addled, non-driving, guitar-player) rented in San Jose's Japantown was 300 square feet. $400/mo., no HVAC, self-installed carpeted walls (not to code and not fire proof). The facility had 10 similar rooms plus one larger room.

Hated it. So we fired him.

[Art Welter]

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 14:54

trace knight wrote on Mon, 04 January 2010 13:36 I am currently in a 10k sq ft building, if divided up into 5 units of 2000 ft each, The one "we" (actually a lithium-addled, non-driving, guitar-player) rented in San Jose's Japantown was 300 square feet. $400/mo., no HVAC, self-installed carpeted walls (not to code and not fire proof). The facility had 10 similar rooms plus one larger room. Hated it. So we fired him.

Reminds me of another one of those wonderful details of practice rooms- there will usually be band members that take up residence there, "getting their moneys worth".