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[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 00:21

Sorry to break the news to you but the low end St market here in Phoenix sucks right now.   I do not typically work directly for bands unless they want to pay my regular fees.  I turn down a lot of work because the bands here are too cheap.  Best thing I can recommend is to network with others.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the market out here. Ryan

What are the bands willing to pay? What are you charging if you dont mind me asking? I will be in contact





Thanks guys

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:42

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 00:21 Sorry to break the news to you but the low end St market here in Phoenix sucks right now.   I do not typically work directly for bands unless they want to pay my regular fees.  I turn down a lot of work because the bands here are too cheap.  Best thing I can recommend is to network with others.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the market out here. Ryan What are the bands willing to pay? What are you charging if you dont mind me asking? I will be in contact Thanks guys

PM me your number and I give you a call on my dime.  You may not hear from me for a couple days, I have the Pig Flu and it sucks real bad!

I prefer not to mention my exact prices in a public forum but let's just say that my minimum charge is about 5 times what a band will pay out here + tax.  Keep in mind that in arizona you need to collect and pay sales tax to equipment rentals to the state and cities.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 06:30

benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:42 RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 00:21 Sorry to break the news to you but the low end St market here in Phoenix sucks right now.   I do not typically work directly for bands unless they want to pay my regular fees.  I turn down a lot of work because the bands here are too cheap.  Best thing I can recommend is to network with others.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the market out here. Ryan What are the bands willing to pay? What are you charging if you dont mind me asking? I will be in contact Thanks guys PM me your number and I give you a call on my dime.  You may not hear from me for a couple days, I have the Pig Flu and it sucks real bad! I prefer not to mention my exact prices in a public forum but let's just say that my minimum charge is about 5 times what a band will pay out here + tax.  Keep in mind that in arizona you need to collect and pay sales tax to equipment rentals to the state and cities.

PM'd!

[Bob Leonard]

I would think Evan may be a good example here. Started with crap, bought better crap, continued to expand his system with good hardware buying the best he could and then started to cater to larger events paying more money. In time he was noticed and is now the BE for ATL and touring with them.

Evan did a number of things right. He put his earnings back into his business until he could eventually provide sound for larger better playing acts, and he listened to what the pro's on this site told him and learned very quickly.

And, he also wrote the book "Destroying drivers, class 101".  

The point here being you'll have to spend money to make money. It can be a painful process, but eventually with the correct business plan and a lot of hard work you can move past the $100 dollar gigs. Anything that puts you in a position above the compatition will hewlp. Better gear, better chops, better support, more knowledge, and of course a better attitude.

If you're paid more, you have to be worth more.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Thanks Bob.


I just dont see me getting more or less gigs due to the fact of the equipment I currently have. I'm sure it could limit me, but at the same time, I think there is a medium. I think there are better gigs to get with the given equipment I have now. Maybe I am wrong, but I just cant afford to get more/better stuff until I can get in that medium...

[Bob Leonard]

benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 08:00

Thanks Bob. I just dont see me getting more or less gigs due to the fact of the equipment I currently have. I'm sure it could limit me, but at the same time, I think there is a medium. I think there are better gigs to get with the given equipment I have now. Maybe I am wrong, but I just cant afford to get more/better stuff until I can get in that medium...

All true Ben, but a some point you need to be offering services that others can not. Build your reputation and your rig a little at a time, not all at once. You'll be surprised at how quickly a few dollars set aside and invested wisely can help.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 07:06

benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 08:00 Thanks Bob. I just dont see me getting more or less gigs due to the fact of the equipment I currently have. I'm sure it could limit me, but at the same time, I think there is a medium. I think there are better gigs to get with the given equipment I have now. Maybe I am wrong, but I just cant afford to get more/better stuff until I can get in that medium... All true Ben, but a some point you need to be offering services that others can not. Build your reputation and your rig a little at a time, not all at once. You'll be surprised at how quickly a few dollars set aside and invested wisely can help.

I totally agree, and I think that is what I will end up doing. I'm going to ride it out with the stuff I have now, and as I've done from the beginning, add to it whenever possible. Thank you Bob

[Dave Rickard]

benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 06:10

Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 07:06 benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 08:00 Thanks Bob. I just dont see me getting more or less gigs due to the fact of the equipment I currently have. I'm sure it could limit me, but at the same time, I think there is a medium. I think there are better gigs to get with the given equipment I have now. Maybe I am wrong, but I just cant afford to get more/better stuff until I can get in that medium... All true Ben, but a some point you need to be offering services that others can not. Build your reputation and your rig a little at a time, not all at once. You'll be surprised at how quickly a few dollars set aside and invested wisely can help. I totally agree, and I think that is what I will end up doing. I'm going to ride it out with the stuff I have now, and as I've done from the beginning, add to it whenever possible. Thank you Bob

That said, I'd like to offer my opinion.   Caution-long post-

I think the items which have the biggest impact on your sound are tranducers, i.e. mics and speakers.  You have a decent mic package going.  But your speakers aren't going to cut it.  You can spend a lot of money on processing gear trying to get your speakers to sound better without much benefit (polishing the turds).  Or you can step up several levels and get great results immediately with great speakers.

Let's look at some boring theoretical "upgrade math".  The "whizbang speaker corp." makes speakers at the $300, $600, and $1200, and $2400 price point.  Top cabs only.

1.  You bought a pair of "Whizbang 1" $300/ea. cabs (@$600).

2.  Rookie mistake.  You quickly find them inadequate so you decide to move up and buy a pair of $600 "Whizbang 2" cabs (@$1200)

You have to keep operating so you have to buy the new cabs before you can sell the old cabs, but can only sell them for about half price, losing $300 in depreciation gaining $300 in cash flow only AFTER you sell them.  

Long term net cost so far is $1500.  $1200+$300 depreciation loss.  Cash flow at the time=$900.

3.  Your business is taking off now, and things are starting to happen!  You decide to move up to the "Whizbang 3's" for $1200/ea. $2400 total.  You buy them and sell your old cabs for half.  $600 depreciation loss.  Long term net cost of 2400+300+600= $3300  Cash flow at the time=$1800.

4.  Congratulations on your business success so far, very successful!  Next you move to the "Whizbang 4", a great choice by the way.  These are truly incredible top cabs!   $2400 each/$4800 pair.  Long term net is $4800+300+600+1200=$6900 for $4800 cabs.  Cash flow is going to be $3600, but you lost $2100 in depreciation!

===================

Around here you will hear the saying, "Buy once, cry once", the above plan will have you crying four times and losing a bit more each time, but gaining more each time too.  But everyone has to learn the ropes and upgrade as they go, so what can a guy do?

* Upgrade smarter, not harder.  If you need to move up a level, bite the bullet and consider moving up two levels instead, more cash flow but less depreciation.  

* Buy *quality* gear every time.  Better gear doesn't just cost more, it sounds better, makes your job easier, and your results better.

* You can save money buying used.  For example, someone bought your scratched and dented Whizbag 3's for only $1200!  When you buy your line array, someone 's going to get your whizbang 4's used as well.

* Read reviews and search posts here so you get the right pieces in place sooner.  

* Network.  Maybe find a good local companies and let them know you'd like to handle some of their "bottom feeder" gig requests.  Ask them if you can work for them also.

* If your market TRULY can't support the company you'd like to build, don't do any of this.  You'll live longer getting a day job, investing in something else, and spending weekends with your family.

* For most of us, audio is in our blood and we don't do it solely to make money, we love it.  If that's you, then have at it, but keep your "business hat" on all the time as well.  

*whew*

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Thanks for the insight Dave, it makes sense. I think my decision right now is to hold off on upgrading ANYTHING until I feel I can no longer make more money with what I currently have, AND making enough that I can afford to upgrade. I think this makes perfect sense and is a good plan, seeing as how I truly believe I can make more money than what I am now even with the stuff I have now. But I do know that when/if I do upgrade, it will be two steps above instead of one, like you suggested.

And just for the record, when I bought my tops, I had zero plans of getting anything more than 2 12" monitors....

[Dave Rickard]

benjamin fisher wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 09:39

And just for the record, when I bought my tops, I had zero plans of getting anything more than 2 12" monitors....

Yeah, we all did.  That's how it starts..........