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[Kristian Johnsen]

Mike Smith wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 18:24

I'm going to pre-order my UltraVenice.

I'm sure they're kicking themselves for taking the time to reverse engineer the Venice when they could have waited until now and just gone down to archives and gotten the blueprints  

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi Jon-

I don't buy the "nothing's gonna change."  It has to, that's the nature of commerce and capitalism.  Presumably Midas/KT wasn't sufficiently profitable to justify it's place on the Bosch roster and for them to be profitable on the Music Group line card will probably require changes in design, manufacturing, distribution and marketing.  In other words, pretty much aspect of Midas/KT will be up for evaluation and changes that result in greater profitability for the new owners.  What Music Group also attains is Brand Respectability.

The open question is what manner and type of change will take place, and when.

I suppose the best thing that can be said of this is "at least the buyer wasn't Sun Capital/LOUD.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Stuart Pendleton]

After all, EAW didn't change after LOUD took over ...  

[Lee Brenkman]

Tim McCulloch wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 11:15

Hi Jon- I don't buy the "nothing's gonna change."  It has to, that's the nature of commerce and capitalism.  Presumably Midas/KT wasn't sufficiently profitable to justify it's place on the Bosch roster and for them to be profitable on the Music Group line card will probably require changes in design, manufacturing, distribution and marketing.  In other words, pretty much aspect of Midas/KT will be up for evaluation and changes that result in greater profitability for the new owners.  What Music Group also attains is Brand Respectability. The open question is what manner and type of change will take place, and when. I suppose the best thing that can be said of this is "at least the buyer wasn't Sun Capital/LOUD. Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc

FWIW - Fiat has owned Ferrari since 1993.   They have been happy to own a prestige
car company with a great engineering heritage and have kept their noses out for the most part.

I wish I was as optimistic about them running what's left of Chrysler though :-0.

[Tim McCulloch]

Lee Brenkman wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 13:20

Tim McCulloch wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 11:15 Hi Jon- I don't buy the "nothing's gonna change."  It has to, that's the nature of commerce and capitalism.  Presumably Midas/KT wasn't sufficiently profitable to justify it's place on the Bosch roster and for them to be profitable on the Music Group line card will probably require changes in design, manufacturing, distribution and marketing.  In other words, pretty much aspect of Midas/KT will be up for evaluation and changes that result in greater profitability for the new owners.  What Music Group also attains is Brand Respectability. The open question is what manner and type of change will take place, and when. I suppose the best thing that can be said of this is "at least the buyer wasn't Sun Capital/LOUD. Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc FWIW - Fiat has owned Ferrari since 1993.   They have been happy to own a prestige car company with a great engineering heritage and have kept their noses out for the most part. I wish I was as optimistic about them running what's left of Chrysler though :-0.

Fiat and Chrysler... oh man, don't get me started (because the Fiat won't...)

I think the hints of what is to come can be found here:

Music Group CEO Michael Deeb said:

“MIDAS and KLARK TEKNIK are at the very pinnacle of their market segment. They address a very unique client base and have a different sales channel from our current core business. The brands will continue to operate autonomously under the leadership of John Oakley while benefiting from the synergies of our combined efforts.  All brands will take advantage of the MUSIC Group’s extensive resources and industry-leading competencies including product development, lifecycle management, supply chain and logistics.

And here:

Alex Cooper, MIDAS Director of Console Engineering said:

“For over twenty years I have devoted my life to designing the finest quality audio products possible. It has always been our goal to achieve the very best performance while continuing to broaden our market presence and expand our customer base. I am convinced that working with the MUSIC Group will provide us with advantages that will help us maintain our high standards and grow the business for the long term.”

The devil is in the details, but I *do* see a line of mixers and outboard that claim a Midas or KT ancestry.  This purchase is about acquiring intellectual property as well as purchasing a running (and presumed profitable, cash-flow-positive) business that doesn't fit the current owner's plans.

It is what it is; we'll have to wait and see what it becomes.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Randy Frierson]

That's exactly what it is, I'm like JJJ probably they will continue on but probably Uli will figure out a way to make Midas and KT more affordable.. This is only the beginning of many more cash infusions and strategic alliances and so on and on..I mean if i had the chance and money i'd buy Nexo...

[John Roberts {JR}]

Lee Brenkman wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 13:20

Tim McCulloch wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 11:15 Hi Jon- I don't buy the "nothing's gonna change."  It has to, that's the nature of commerce and capitalism.  Presumably Midas/KT wasn't sufficiently profitable to justify it's place on the Bosch roster and for them to be profitable on the Music Group line card will probably require changes in design, manufacturing, distribution and marketing.  In other words, pretty much aspect of Midas/KT will be up for evaluation and changes that result in greater profitability for the new owners.  What Music Group also attains is Brand Respectability. The open question is what manner and type of change will take place, and when. I suppose the best thing that can be said of this is "at least the buyer wasn't Sun Capital/LOUD. Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc FWIW - Fiat has owned Ferrari since 1993.   They have been happy to own a prestige car company with a great engineering heritage and have kept their noses out for the most part. I wish I was as optimistic about them running what's left of Chrysler though :-0.

Not to be contrary.. but it is orders of magnitude harder to be successful making a fiat, than a ferrari... One just takes passion and deep pockets, the other much more skill.

Not to praise Sun Capital, but they brought some much needed cash and discipline to Mackie. The brand management since then seems more productive (IMO), ignoring personal opinions about the actual brands themselves.  

At the end of the day this is all a business... contrary to the excuses we may make to ourselves for our life choices.

JR

[Lee Brenkman]

Tim McCulloch wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 11:44

Fiat and Chrysler... oh man, don't get me started (because the Fiat won't...) The devil is in the details, but I *do* see a line of mixers and outboard that claim a Midas or KT ancestry.  This purchase is about acquiring intellectual property as well as purchasing a running (and presumed profitable, cash-flow-positive) business that doesn't fit the current owner's plans. It is what it is; we'll have to wait and see what it becomes. Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc

Again, FWIW my wife's daily driver is the 1980 Fiat 2000 Spider that she bought new.  It has never failed to start.  The engine and other running gear are top notch.  Things like the door handles and seat back handles on the other hand...

And as for cheaper products claiming higher ancestry I think that any of us who can read through "British EQ" or "we make the Vertec so the JRX is the best speaker for you because the big tours use our stuff" can deal with that.  Actually, as I recall, KT did some of that already with a more "affordable" line  of signal processing

As long as the "flagship" Midas and KT stuff remains of a high quality and they use the bigger buying power of the new ownership to get better prices on GOOD component parts I don't care what the guys in marketing do to sell the cheaper stuff.

[Lee Brenkman]

[quote title=John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 11:50
Not to be contrary.. but it is orders of magnitude harder to be successful making a fiat, than a ferrari... One just takes passion and deep pockets, the other much more skill.

Not to praise Sun Capital, but they brought some much needed cash and discipline to Mackie. The brand management since then seems more productive (IMO), ignoring personal opinions about the actual brands themselves.  

At the end of the day this is all a business... contrary to the excuses we may make to ourselves for our life choices.

JR
[/quote]

Actually I made, I think, that point earlier in the thread.   It's IS harder to make a useful product in large quantities at an affordable price, with all of the compromises that entails, than it is to make a few "cost no object" products for the elite few.

If ANY of the "Ferrari" or "Midas" engineering improvements filter down to the "Fiat" or "Behringer" product the end users at that end of the food chain benefit.

And yes, things at Mackie DO seem more settled since Sun Capital got involved.

People in sound AND cars who spend most of their time serving artists and producers with the pull and budget to pay for the highest possible performance sometimes forget about the people who just need a reliable car to get to work every day or make the principal audible in the high school auditorium.

[Craig Leerman]

Jon Martin wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 10:50

Nothing is going to change.   Midas will still be "Midas" as we know it

For how long?  Is Crest still the old pre Peavey Crest?  What about EAW?  In fact, is Mackie even still the same after LOUD? How many "Mackoids" (Mackies term for their employees) were fired when Mackie moved production overseas?    

I predict that Uli will follow his current successful business model and reduce costs where he can in production by using cheaper components, and overseas labor. As you and others have mentioned, Behringer used to make quality items (I still have 3 German Comps I use), but changed their business model for bigger profits.  Why do you think he stopped making quality products?  It was all about the money.

Quote:

all of the U.K. folks are still in charge of Midas, David Cooper will still be the brains of Midas (he built the XL4/XL8/PRO6) and they will continue to build products worthy of the Midas name. (no Legend cracks..OK?)

For how long?  I'm going to bet that as soon as Uli gets a good look at the books, he will start weeding out some of the talent to save dough (First to go will be any designers and R+D). Then as soon as Uli starts using crappy components in the Midas gear, I'm sure many of the rest of the staff will flee, not wanting to be associated with crappy products.

I predict that Behringer will be using the Midas and KT brand names, and introduce lower priced products in those lines (think Behringer guts in a KT or Midas case) to try and sell those good names to markets that probably could not afford them (like smaller churches, schools, installs and local musos)  When Behringer sees that the profit from the low end stuff far outperforms the real Midas and KT, those high end products will be discontinued, as "NEWER and BETTER" (read as CRAPPY) models replace them.

The biggest problem with large corporations is that no matter how great the intention, it all comes down to the money. Sam Walton, who I believe was probably a good man with good intentions, and who probably really cared about his workers and the quality of his merchandise when they were a small company, grew his company into what many, including myself believe to be a large evil empire. Some of it fueled by consumer greed to have products at the lowest cost, some fueled by manufacturers and suppliers greed (think of all the toys with lead paint recalls), but many of it fueled by Wal-Mart's desire to keep generating more profits.

Last year I worked for a large AV company. Because the economy was down, so was their revenue. Instead of thinking, "Hey, we are still making MILLIONS OF DOLLARS even in the bad economy when many of our competitors and other businesses are going belly up, all I heard was "WE ARE NOT DOING GOOD ENOUGH NUMBERS!"  When you base you business on profit, the quality of services always suffers. That's one of the reasons why I left there.  And thats how most large businesses operate.

Midas and KT may or may not be profitable now, but with some changes (cheaper engineers, overseas labor, lower cost components) Uli can reap more profit from them, even if they are what I call profitable right now.