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Author Topic: A decent sub  (Read 13076 times)

Shivraj Persaud

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A decent sub
« on: November 23, 2009, 02:17:19 pm »

In my search for a good sub plan I came across this plan by selenium on partsexpress.com. It uses 2 15" woofers and will give good bass down to 40hz. Its seems very easy to build.

Here is the link.

  http://www.parts-express.com/mfg/selenium/selenium-cabinet.c fm

thats a link with a lot of plans.

Here is the subwoofer.

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/selenium/hb1505d1.pdf
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Mike {AB} Butler

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 01:07:37 pm »

Hmmm..
It would seem to be all right... BUT! My only concern is seeing no Plots for the response (even though it's "from" Selenium). Unless you can get some testimony from a user that has done AND correctly measured these, I'd be more inclined to bet my $$ on the LAB sub (this one isn't significantly smaller, either - less than a 5" difference in height).
Regards,
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Mike Butler,
Principal, Technology and Operations,
Dascott Technologies, LLC

Shivraj Persaud

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 02:10:35 pm »

I cant find any plots, but they should do 137db down to 40hz. They're no way as big as Labsubwoofers. Or see lab sub junior on cowanaudio.com
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Shivraj Persaud

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 04:39:39 pm »

someone model these already, there basically whats EAW calls the DCS2. for dance clubs. http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req .htm

plugging in 106db and 140db at listener level, 4 of these should provide that.

One of these boxes is bigger than the other.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 06:22:43 pm »

Shivraj Persaud wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:10

I cant find any plots, but they should do 137db down to 40hz.


If you can't find any data-how do you know what they will produce at what freq?

Yes it says they will go down to 40Hz-but so will my tweeters-just how loud is the question.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Mike {AB} Butler

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2009, 01:10:57 pm »

Shivraj Persaud wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:10

I cant find any plots, but they should do 137db down to 40hz. They're no way as big as Labsubwoofers. Or see lab sub junior on cowanaudio.com

OK, as Ivan pointed out, you can't take the max SPL output (calculated), and expect these drivers to put out that Max SPL at 40 Hz. In fact, many times the Maximum SPL is waayyy up past the top corner frequency of a typical sub's band pass (I had once had a driver that had it's peak SPL output up at around 810 Hz - no where near the 100 hz HP that the sub was designed for!!). In my 29 years of building subs, I have yet to ever see a subdriver where this wasn't true.
As far as the size, I was quoting the height. IMO, the box IS a Horn, and is still a pretty good sized cubic foot chunk of real estate at 39.371" tall (The Labsub being "just" 44" tall)..   Rolling Eyes
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Mike Butler,
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Dascott Technologies, LLC

Shivraj Persaud

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 04:43:42 pm »

You're right about that, they're pretty big didn't realize. 39x39 vs 45x45. Wow .. and wider Smile almost 40" hehe. Wow ... I like these cause they are easier to build than lab subs. Good power handling, 1200-1400 watts RMS.
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Art Welter

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 06:46:48 pm »

Shivraj Persaud wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 14:43

You're right about that, they're pretty big didn't realize. 39x39 vs 45x45. Wow .. and wider Smile almost 40" hehe. Wow ... I like these cause they are easier to build than lab subs. Good power handling, 1200-1400 watts RMS.


Shivraj,

The size is not 39 x 39, it is approx 39 x 23.4 x 31.2, so about 16.2 cubic feet compared to the Lab sub at 26.36 cubic feet.

I'd expect the frequency response to be similar to my "C horn", the path length and layout are similar.

I went to front loaded 2x12" Lab 12, gave up the upper bass for more low end in a smaller package.

The two are compared below, blue is a single 15" "C horn", yellow the 2x12".
2x12 is 7.76 cubic feet, "C horn" 10.35 cubic feet.
index.php/fa/26778/0/
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Shivraj Persaud

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Re: A decent sub
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 12:08:21 am »

Youre right I made a mistake, not familiar with the metric system. When will America get into the new millenium, (NEVER Smile )

Yes there are two boxes,

1 - 39x34x24 approximately
2 - 39x30x30 approximately
3 -- an 18 inch version also

see link

http://www.parts-express.com/mfg/selenium/selenium-cabinet.c fm

Also I bought 4 B&C 15PS100 woofers which I was gonna build regular bandpass boxes but those are not that efficient about 99db.

With this kind of driver I believe these should do 105+ db. +/- 1 db. what do you guys think, what kind of efficiency can be expected ?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: A decent sub-Be cautious
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 08:16:39 am »

Shivraj Persaud wrote on Thu, 10 December 2009 00:08

Youre right I made a mistake, not familiar with the metric system. When will America get into the new millenium, (NEVER Smile )

Yes there are two boxes,

1 - 39x34x24 approximately
2 - 39x30x30 approximately
3 -- an 18 inch version also

see link

 http://www.parts-express.com/mfg/selenium/selenium-cabinet.c fm

Also I bought 4 B&C 15PS100 woofers which I was gonna build regular bandpass boxes but those are not that efficient about 99db.

With this kind of driver I believe these should do 105+ db. +/- 1 db. what do you guys think, what kind of efficiency can be expected ?



When you start talking horns-everything is not as it seems.  It is not so much about the particular driver specs-as how THAT driver is used in the box and how well the box and driver work together.  Look at the lab 12 drivers-the sensitivity pretty much sucks-but look how they work in a properly designed horn.

AND where the specs come from (what part of the response curve did the sensitivity number come from).

I remember my eye opening event (in that regards) years ago.  I was running single and double 15" scoop cabinets.  I was using JBL E140's in them-because they had the highest sensitivity of any of the bass speakers in the JBL line.

Everybody was telling me I should be running JBL 2225's-but I pushed back because they had a lower sensitivity "rating".
Eventually I purchased a couple of 2225's and WOW-those were so much louder-but how could that be? Confused

Upon closer examination of the specs-I saw that the E140 was rated in a higher freq band than the 2225's were-hench the different sensitivity.

You CANNOT describe how a loudspeaker reacts (power-sensitivity-freq response etc) with a single set of numbers.  It is a very complex thing that HAS to be looked at from various angles.

The BEST way is to build one and measure it accurately and THEN you will have an idea of what it will actually do.

Models will give you clues-but will not tell the whole story.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
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