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[Joseph White, CTS]

Hello all,

I am looking for a new console for a broadcast mixing situation at a large church (10k+). Currently we broadcast to satellite campuses, to the internet, and to our ROKU channel, but I'd like to be ready to hit TV and radio when the opportunity arises. We have a very contemporary worship style with electric guitars and drum set every week, and we also have a choir and an orchestra that rotate in for special events.

Our FOH console is a VENUE D-Show. Currently we are running through mic splitters up to an M7CL in a closed room which mixes our broadcast feed. Problem is we are running out of inputs/outputs and routing ability on the M7, not to mention it doesn't sound very good.

We have considered the VENUE Profile, to match the FOH board, or a larger iLive console. The profile is limited to 48 channels and requires plugins to really become magical. Although the iLive does not have full protools integration native, with Dante and PT9HD it can still do all the recording and virtual sound check functions, plus it comes in 64 channels.

Both of these feel like they are not forward thinking enough, so I think I might need a real broadcast console. I know nothing about broadcast unfortunately, but I'm learning fast. Please give me some suggestions.

Here is what I'd like to have.

• As many as 64 channels with full digital channel strips including assignable de-essers.
• Very flexible routing to send customized mixes to satellite campuses (3), hallways, overflow areas, internet, DVD, etc. I use stereo matrixes that can be routed from individual channels to make this work now, but the M7 only has 4 of those.
• For the future, if we go into TV it will be HD, so I need to be able to mix to 5.1.
• I will probably end up using this console to setup IEM mixes as well. Our musicians aren't too picky, and during practice our broadcast console doesn't do much and then during services our IEM console (A&H ML5000) doesn't do much, so it makes sense to combine them. This would require 5-6 stereo auxes.
• Virtual sound check capability. This can easily be done with ProTools 9 HD and a Dante interface, if there are any consoles other than the iLive that have a flexible Dante interface. This feature makes the IEM mixing possible, since we can then nail down the rest of the mix after the fact.

I know this is a ton of info, but any help you can offer would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Joseph White

[Dave Alderdice]

I would suggest that you look at the Digico SD8 as a console and the RME HDMadiface as the I/O.  This would give you 64 channels of input and output to Pro Tools 9 on either a laptop with Express Card slot or the HDSP or HDSPe Madi unit for a tower PC/MAC.

The console does not have surround functionality yet, but a hardware joystick is there so presumably the software functionality will be available sometime soon.

The console has assignable dynamic equalization on inputs and outputs.

Hello all,

I am looking for a new console for a broadcast mixing situation at a large church (10k+). Currently we broadcast to satellite campuses, to the internet, and to our ROKU channel, but I'd like to be ready to hit TV and radio when the opportunity arises. We have a very contemporary worship style with electric guitars and drum set every week, and we also have a choir and an orchestra that rotate in for special events.

Our FOH console is a VENUE D-Show. Currently we are running through mic splitters up to an M7CL in a closed room which mixes our broadcast feed. Problem is we are running out of inputs/outputs and routing ability on the M7, not to mention it doesn't sound very good.

We have considered the VENUE Profile, to match the FOH board, or a larger iLive console. The profile is limited to 48 channels and requires plugins to really become magical. Although the iLive does not have full protools integration native, with Dante and PT9HD it can still do all the recording and virtual sound check functions, plus it comes in 64 channels.

Both of these feel like they are not forward thinking enough, so I think I might need a real broadcast console. I know nothing about broadcast unfortunately, but I'm learning fast. Please give me some suggestions.

Here is what I'd like to have.

• As many as 64 channels with full digital channel strips including assignable de-essers.
• Very flexible routing to send customized mixes to satellite campuses (3), hallways, overflow areas, internet, DVD, etc. I use stereo matrixes that can be routed from individual channels to make this work now, but the M7 only has 4 of those.
• For the future, if we go into TV it will be HD, so I need to be able to mix to 5.1.
• I will probably end up using this console to setup IEM mixes as well. Our musicians aren't too picky, and during practice our broadcast console doesn't do much and then during services our IEM console (A&H ML5000) doesn't do much, so it makes sense to combine them. This would require 5-6 stereo auxes.
• Virtual sound check capability. This can easily be done with ProTools 9 HD and a Dante interface, if there are any consoles other than the iLive that have a flexible Dante interface. This feature makes the IEM mixing possible, since we can then nail down the rest of the mix after the fact.

I know this is a ton of info, but any help you can offer would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Joseph White

[RaySoly]

I would certainly look at the max air http://www.avid.com/US/products/Avid-Max-Air, seems just what you need, for now and for the next few years......

Ray

[Dave Alderdice]

I would certainly look at the max air http://www.avid.com/US/products/Avid-Max-Air, seems just what you need, for now and for the next few years......

Ray

Is the Max Air not a Euphonix product that was introduced 8 years ago before Avid bought them up?  The pricing back then was $150,000.  That seems like it might be a bit much for the op's intended purpose. 

[David Buehler]

There was a article about HOW using a D-show at FOH with the HDX cards routing to a control room setup using Protools HD with a D-Command ES as the broadcast consoles, giving you the full 128 channel count from Protools HD. You are limited to the max length of the HDx buss as well as the FOH console's gain settings.

FWIW the profile surface supports the full 128 I/O count, but it is the Mixrack system that is limited to the 48 mic inputs. You can have a regular Profile system with 2 x 48 ch stage racks connected

[Steve Payne]

What's your budget?  The Studer Vista Series would be a no compromise solution.

http://www.studer.ch/applications/application.aspx?aid=1

[Curt Sorensen]

Hi,
We purchased a Calrec Zeta [two of them actually] after shopping the Euphonix Max Air and the Studer Vista. I doubt you'll find a true broadcast console for much under 200k, near where our budget was two years ago. And you may find that some of the things you like about various live sound desks aren't there in a similar way, and the broadcast features you're paying for may not be so useful. Generalizations, I know. The biggest difference I find between live sound and broadcast desks are a need for more outputs, the ability to perform complex routing, and more flexible system configuration. As far as the last item, I think I've seen manufacturers introduce the flagship models that can be configured in many ways, but then follow that model with more fixed format, smaller versions. Whatever you buy, I'd recommend a system that isn't helpless when the PC crashes. If you do have a budget, demos are available.
Hope this helps a little,

[David Sumrall]

Based on your criteria I'd be looking at Digico.

I do live broadcast on an SD7.

Live 2 mix to web, tape, evs, tv, etc etc. With 16 descrete feeds to other campuses.

The flexibility is amazing on the setup of the desk, faders, layers, ins, outs etc etc.

One of the coolest parts is that matrix inputs can easily come from anything. an input, an aux, a group, etc etc. All while in a show if needed.

I set my desk up with as many ins outs as i could so i dont have to add more later or much. For example i maxed out the matrix outs. Then when i need a matrix to do something it is just a matter of routing ins and outs and levels vs rebuilding. much faster and consistent.

The dynamic eq's and mutiband comps are awesome. I use them to help keep things in check since it is live on inputs, sub groups, mix groups, and the master.

The desk sounds great and i find myself doing minimal eq fixing and use eq more to help things sit in the mix.

I'm tracking at least 88 tracks into pro tools via madi from the desk. Those come back into the desk too via madi and the alt input to rehearse or tweak etc.

The SD8 is smaller but has the same sound, pre's, fx,  eq, etc.

Not sure exactly what your bus limitation is on the m7 in your setup? I get it has limitations. Just not understanding what yours are. You could do 16 mono discrete mixes  pre or post plus the matrixes and the stereo bus.  You could move the fx sends to the matrixes and use the auxes for the discretes. if you are trying to do ears and bcast on then yep that is a problem. if you have to do true stereo feeds then that will eat things up but maybe they all don't have to be stereo.

Now to do monitors and bcast on the same desk are two different things. Different gain structure, different eq, different aux structure. Definitely would be compromising both that route.

And if you really want to hit radio and TV well then it should be done individually.

I think you have a couple options...

1. keep the m7 as dedicated bcast and get a monitor desk
2. move the m7 to monitors and get a bigger bcast desk
3. get new desks for both
4. get another m7 for one of those for standardization.
5. get new foh, bcast, and mons to start over
6. re-examine how you are using the current desk and see if there is another way to do it better.

Good luck which ever way you go!

David

[Geoff Doane]

How much money do you want to spend?  This ought to do what you want, although the "plug-ins" will be external on a patch bay.

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/c200%20hd/

It's got a neat feature that lets you collapse the 5.1 mix to stereo (or mono) with predetermined levels from each bus to the stereo mix. 

I also wouldn't want to have the broadcast mixer providing the IEM mixes.  That would be a good job for the M7CL, whatever you replace it with.

GTD

[RaySoly]

Is the Max Air not a Euphonix product that was introduced 8 years ago before Avid bought them up?  The pricing back then was $150,000.  That seems like it might be a bit much for the op's intended purpose.

The reasoning for the Euphonix/Avid (any model in fact) suggestion was based on the OP's requirements ....namely, some kind of Pro tools interaction/control,(Eucon) Broadcast use, Surround capabilities (can do up to 7.1) and high track counts.....of course SD7, Studer vista and Calrec Zeta along with Stagetec will also be good choices.....all cost more than your average church's "live" console......

Ray

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