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Author Topic: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?  (Read 31084 times)

David Hoover

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 11:47:37 pm »

Robert Alan wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 19:03

i would also second the idea of looking into the sennheiser 900 series mics.fuller, smoother and more articulate than the shures IMO. the audio technica artist elite series is also very good. brighter sounding than the senns. very articulate and clear.


out of interest has anyone ever A/B´ed the Beyerdynamic TG-X60 with the PR 35? the TG-X60 has a massively full sound (gigantic bottom end when used up close)the 60 seems very flat and uncolured/natural sounding but also has very good GBF. might be an alternative to the  PR 35 where there are wash problems?


How to the 900 series compare to the 800 series? I used (I'm guessing because they were low budget) some 800 series at an event a couple months ago.  Terrible feedback and a tinny sound.  I'm honestly biased just because of my bad experience with them thus far Sad.  I like the 58's better.  But, I'll take your word for it if the 900 is a lot better.
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David Hoover

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2009, 11:56:31 pm »

Tim A Perry wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 08:54

>How about upgrading to a Heil PR-20, PR-35, or maybe a Shure Beta 87c? I just want a quality mic so that when I put one of my good singers on there, I can have that smirk of "wow, that sounds great" on my face. I'm definately up for suggestions outside those brands, too!


For the really good voices I pull out the Audix VX-10LO but after doing a show for another company this year I have a new favorite vocal mic... the Beyer M88.

I consider the OM-5 as my best overall go to mics.

OM-6 for female vox and high pitched males.

OM-7- heavy metal and other really loud rock stuff




I found some clips of the OM series mics.  To me the OM-6 seems to have the most balanced sound and best high end output.  I also heard a side by side comparison of the sm58 and the OM2 on youtube, and the OM2 sounds much more crisp.  I wish I could get a good clip of the PR-35!  Heil has one on the site but its just a dude talking.  OM-6 sounds very nice, though.
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2009, 12:27:51 am »

Here's an email that a friend recently sent.  I'm sure he won't mind my sharing it.  He omits that he recently sold his KMS105 owing to disuse,

"I have been using the 935 on lead for some time and it's my go to mic always. I can get it louder than any other mic I own. I have beta 58 & 57, OM6, OM7, 835, 865, VX10, M88. I just ordered a 945, so I can't comment much on them. I did have a band one night that used two 945s. One had a vocal processor that made too much highs at 8-10KHz. The other singer was straight into the snake and I liked it. I hear that the 945 does not have as much peak in the 2-4 KHz range, but does have a little more up higher that makes it sound like a condenser. I have a screechy voiced female country singer that the 835 sounds best. It's a little darker mic. As far as monitor gain before feedback, the 935 has a peak around 2-2.5 K that once notched gets really loud and ballsy. Monitor EQ wise, it's similar to a Beta 58 and is swappable with almost no EQ change. But sounds much better. I'm expecting the 945 should do a little better. To me the OM7 doesn't get as loud and sounds a little phasey before feeding back. In my experience, cardiod mics sound more natural than hyper or super. As soon as the singer gets slightly off axis on the OM7 and KMS105 or when they approach feedback, they sound phasey. That's why my current set-up is all cardiod. But giving the 945 a chance.

Currently, I'm not using the OM7s on my main rig except for sometimes on singing drummers. The OM7 needs the singer to eat the mic. Drops off fast. Using 935 on lead, 835 on backing vocs. Once I get the 945 and see how it works, I'll get either more 935 or more 945. And keep an 835 handy for those screechy singers. The difference between the 835 & 935 is very noticable."

Phil Lewandowski

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 07:46:03 am »

David Hoover wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 23:47

Robert Alan wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 19:03

i would also second the idea of looking into the sennheiser 900 series mics.fuller, smoother and more articulate than the shures IMO. the audio technica artist elite series is also very good. brighter sounding than the senns. very articulate and clear.


out of interest has anyone ever A/B´ed the Beyerdynamic TG-X60 with the PR 35? the TG-X60 has a massively full sound (gigantic bottom end when used up close)the 60 seems very flat and uncolured/natural sounding but also has very good GBF. might be an alternative to the  PR 35 where there are wash problems?


How to the 900 series compare to the 800 series? I used (I'm guessing because they were low budget) some 800 series at an event a couple months ago.  Terrible feedback and a tinny sound.  I'm honestly biased just because of my bad experience with them thus far Sad.  I like the 58's better.  But, I'll take your word for it if the 900 is a lot better.


Oh ya, the 934/945 are much better.  I own 835s, 935s, and 945s and the 945 is my favorite and is a touch smoother up top compared to the 935.  So again you get what you pay for.

I have found that the 835 either sounds really good on a voice and 100x better than a 58 or just doesn't work at all and sounds really "tinny" as you found, it just depends on the voice.


Take Care,
Phil
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David Hoover

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 11:14:01 pm »

Tim Padrick wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 00:27

Here's an email that a friend recently sent.  I'm sure he won't mind my sharing it.  He omits that he recently sold his KMS105 owing to disuse,

"I have been using the 935 on lead for some time and it's my go to mic always. I can get it louder than any other mic I own. I have beta 58 & 57, OM6, OM7, 835, 865, VX10, M88. I just ordered a 945, so I can't comment much on them. I did have a band one night that used two 945s. One had a vocal processor that made too much highs at 8-10KHz. The other singer was straight into the snake and I liked it. I hear that the 945 does not have as much peak in the 2-4 KHz range, but does have a little more up higher that makes it sound like a condenser. I have a screechy voiced female country singer that the 835 sounds best. It's a little darker mic. As far as monitor gain before feedback, the 935 has a peak around 2-2.5 K that once notched gets really loud and ballsy. Monitor EQ wise, it's similar to a Beta 58 and is swappable with almost no EQ change. But sounds much better. I'm expecting the 945 should do a little better. To me the OM7 doesn't get as loud and sounds a little phasey before feeding back. In my experience, cardiod mics sound more natural than hyper or super. As soon as the singer gets slightly off axis on the OM7 and KMS105 or when they approach feedback, they sound phasey. That's why my current set-up is all cardiod. But giving the 945 a chance.

Currently, I'm not using the OM7s on my main rig except for sometimes on singing drummers. The OM7 needs the singer to eat the mic. Drops off fast. Using 935 on lead, 835 on backing vocs. Once I get the 945 and see how it works, I'll get either more 935 or more 945. And keep an 835 handy for those screechy singers. The difference between the 835 & 935 is very noticable."




Wow, my hat's off to you guys.  Everyone on here has given me great information!  I appreciate your time a lot.  I agree with you on the cardiod pattern.  Less pickup monitor side of the mic, and singers that move around love them so I've found.  My singers used to using a beta58 used my SM58 and liked that they didn't have to be touching it and directly in front of it.  I've heard so many E800 & E900 I think you've inspired me to check them out.  I'll see if I can borrow one from someone.
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Tim A Perry

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 11:30:14 pm »

David Hoover wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 23:56

Tim A Perry wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 08:54

>How about upgrading to a Heil PR-20, PR-35, or maybe a Shure Beta 87c? I just want a quality mic so that when I put one of my good singers on there, I can have that smirk of "wow, that sounds great" on my face. I'm definately up for suggestions outside those brands, too!


For the really good voices I pull out the Audix VX-10LO but after doing a show for another company this year I have a new favorite vocal mic... the Beyer M88.

I consider the OM-5 as my best overall go to mics.

OM-6 for female vox and high pitched males.

OM-7- heavy metal and other really loud rock stuff




I found some clips of the OM series mics.  To me the OM-6 seems to have the most balanced sound and best high end output.  I also heard a side by side comparison of the sm58 and the OM2 on youtube, and the OM2 sounds much more crisp.  I wish I could get a good clip of the PR-35!  Heil has one on the site but its just a dude talking.  OM-6 sounds very nice, though.


What I recommend is to set up a typical stage monitor system with a 58. Let the artist sing a bit then change to an OM-whatever.
So far every time I tried this the artist eyes open up wide after about 3 words into a song. Normally I will set the channel EQ flat for the OM with maybee a bit of boost in the upper mid.

For typical rock / country/ whatever I find the OM-5 gets it done for me.

The OM-7 have a reduced output which necessitates input gain adjustments when swapping them with some other model of mic.
This is sometimes a PITA during combat audio setups. Occasionally you get someone who just has to have that one with the silver ball on the end Smile



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Andy Peters

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 12:39:49 am »

Tim A Perry wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 21:30

The OM-7 have a reduced output which necessitates input gain adjustments when swapping them with some other model of mic. This is sometimes a PITA during combat audio setups. Occasionally you get someone who just has to have that one with the silver ball on the end Smile


BFD. Isn't that why they put that gain knob there in the first place? So it can be adjusted?

Under what circumstance would you be soooooo rushed that you have time to swap out a mic but not the two seconds it takes to change the input gain?

If you're swapping the OM7 for an SM58 (or the converse) you're likely changing channel-strip EQ and probably re-ringing out the wedge.

There are a lot of things higher on my "PITA" list than the OM7's low output.

-a
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Robert Alan

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2009, 05:26:09 pm »

yeah if go with the sennheisers you definitely want the 900 series. they really are a step up from the 800 and a big step up from the betas.
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Jeff Babcock

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2009, 06:00:24 pm »

Caleb Dick wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 09:59

We compared a number of mics a few months back, handful of male vocals, quiet stage (Aviom/shields around drums and amps or direct), Meyer system.  Rejection wasn't a concern for us.  Based on sound quality, here's the order of what we liked

-AE5400
-PR35

These two stood out to us; very different sounding (dynamic vs condenser), but depending on voice, both very nice.



-AE3300 (high mid peak)
-E945
-PR22

These were all good overall.



-B87A (thin/harsh)
-ND967 (inaccurate)

Didn't care for


And finally:
-SM58
-B58
 

Caleb


I would agree with those assessments, though I have not used the Audio Technica units.

The PR35 is a wonderful mic.  Obviously it is not perfect for every situation, but it does sound excellent in many scenarios.  It sounds much better than its reasonable price would indicate.

Tim Padrick

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Re: Heil Sound PR Series or Shure Beta Series?
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 03:07:27 am »

Tim A Perry wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 22:30

The OM-7 have a reduced output which necessitates input gain adjustments when swapping them with some other model of mic.
This is sometimes a PITA during combat audio setups. Occasionally you get someone who just has to have that one with the silver ball on the end Smile


The OM6 is the one to have if you need a mic that can be swapped in place of an SM58 or Beta 58 with no gain changes.  I was gonna sell mine, but I took it with me this past weekend, and now I think I may put it in my briefcase gig pile.

Part of the reason I got Sennheiser wireless for the theater is I knew that someday they'd want to get some handhelds, and I much prefer the Senny's to the Shures, even if they have to be 800 series (they don't offer the 100G3 with 900 series).
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