Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Art Welter]

Jim Bowersox wrote on Thu, 24 December 2009 20:38

I have 2 questions for the SB people.  I'm not looking for a load of marketing speak, but rather a legitimate explanation of the acoustic theories and principles behind the design. 1)  What does the plastic mesh in front of the horn do? and 2)  What does the angle of the LF drivers do? Inquiring minds want to know!

Regardless of explanation of the speaker positioning and the HF diffraction grate, the side by side arrangement and distance between the apparent woofer center to the mid/high driver center will result in an off axis dip around the crossover point between the two bands.

The dip is unavoidable. If this cabinet/array is EQd properly for a flat on axis response, the off axis response will show a “suckout” around the crossover frequency. The differing dispersion characteristics between the drivers will also make the “suckout” non symmetrical left and right.
The mid driver can go rather low, so one has a bit of latitude determining where the compromised frequencies will be, but the problem will occur, and any polar chart would clearly indicate the problem. Room reflections would mask this problem, but an outdoor measurement would clearly indicate it.

The Xyon cabinets are not alone in this problem, any manufacturer adopting a side by side low mid/high arrangement like this will have similar problems.

One can “blame” vertical problems in the HOB from a too short split array, but the horizontal midrange coverage problems are directly attributable to the driver horizontal spacing distance which will result in severe comb filter problems around the crossover point.

Art Welter

[Jeff Babcock]

Mike Slay wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 15:40

I noticed someone pointed out Brent is now a soundbridge employ.  He was at the HoB first and decided to come on board with SB only very recently.  Brent is an engineer by trade and not a sales guy.

Maybe so, but he identified himself in this thread as an HOB employee, and conveniently omitted his SB connection.  Unless he only started working for SB in the last couple weeks, this reflects very poorly IMO.

I will avoid making statements about the XYON product itself until I have actually used it, but Soundbridge has very scarce information about the technologies they are using in the product, with only brief mention of them on their website.  No doubt some  R&D efforts were required, so there must be some detailed information available.

Art, +1 on your observations.

[Adam Robinson]

I'm at the Variety Playhouse today in Atlanta, GA and they have a new SoundBridge rig.  Like the other SB rigs I've encountered, it coincidentally replaced an XLC rig (and I've mentioned that I'm just not a huge fan).  I have no issues with how the boxes sound - in fact, I'm pretty happy with it so far, but I'm noticing an SB trend:  all of their installs that I have been on fall in the category of "not enough boxes."  The systems I've been on got loud enough for my needs, but I would prefer a longer line.  

Today's venue might be an issue of budget when they installed the rig (I don't know) and I don't mean this post to reflect negatively on the crew here - as they're all great.  I just feel that each time I'm on a SoundBridge line array I keep thinking "more boxes."

[Mac Kerr]

Adam Robinson wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 14:53

I'm noticing an SB trend:  all of their installs that I have been on fall in the category of "not enough boxes."  The systems I've been on got loud enough for my needs, but I would prefer a longer line.   Today's venue might be an issue of budget when they installed the rig (I don't know) and I don't mean this post to reflect negatively on the crew here - as they're all great.  I just feel that each time I'm on a SoundBridge line array I keep thinking "more boxes."

What about the performance of the system makes you "prefer a longer line"?

The length of a line array isn't determined by preference, it is determined by even coverage. If the installed system, whatever it is, doesn't cover the audience evenly in both level and frequency response there is a problem with the design. One of the problems, but not the only possible problem, may be how long the array is.

Mac

[Adam Robinson]

I would prefer the longer line for this room to do a couple things:
 -throw better to the balcony (eliminate baclony fills)
 -reach a bit more toward the stage
 -more LF coupling

I got done a bit ago with my gig and as I look back through the thread, I had some similar experiences to Evan with the system.  We run a very dynamic show and tonight quieter songs were averaging as low as 90dbA and more energetic songs were hitting about 104 at FOH.

My EQ ended up with some similarities to Evan's... I definitely chewed up the 1.6k to 5k range a bit.  As I really got the rig running, a note between 3.5k and 4k kept popping out and bothering me.  I finally got pretty drastic and made an acute cut at 3.5k only to have the offender move up toward 4k.   I widened my cut a bit and brought it back in about halfway (I think my original cut was 12db) and it was ok, but I was never really happy with this range.  

Overall I can think of a list of systems I'd rather have and at the same time think of a list I'd rather not have.  This rig just made me go "meh..." and move on.  I've got another show on it before we roll down the road and I'm presented with another set of challenges.  I'm not about to run out and spec one of these systems, but it still won't go on my "no" list.  I'd still like to see what 4 more boxes per side in this room would do.....

Just my $0.02......

[Adam Robinson]

...second day, second show.  This one was for families, so the volume was much more tame and my experiences were similar to my post a couple months ago.  The HF issues weren't as much of an issue at my average of 91dbA.  

In the end, everything else about this room make up for anything I don't like about the PA:  the staff is great and the crowds are always great.  The PA is only a part of the larger picture.