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[jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)]

Montez Carter wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 02:22

I have eight DIY horn loaded subs they are loaded with the Eminence Kappalite 3015lf.  I always run them center clustered. I have not had any problems with the drivers my problem is that they do not sound linear at all frequencies. At first I assumed it was boundary cancellation but they do this outside too.  I tried to smooth some of it out with eq but the low notes drop way off in d.b.I like them as far as bang for the buck just wish they were constant throughout their passband. I have some Clamshell double eighteen cabs that I milled with the eighteen sound 18Lw1400 and I like the consistency of them.But just to get the numbers that I need is hard with the price of the drivers. And the power that I have to put to them is insane compared the the folded horns. Do you guys think Labs would remedy this problem. I do a lot of hip hop and rnb events and I am looking for that whoa factor. By the way my top boxes are Kf 850ef's. I have been lurking this forum for a while just waiting to pull the trigger even have lab drivers still in the box at the warehouse just have not had time to program tool paths. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

For a 2000-3000 person show your going to need 12-16 labs for that "woah factor". PL6.0's are a very good starting point - I use the PL380 on my labs (driving 2 cabinets a side) and i have plenty of breathing room running the rig hard.

A very important thing I don't see anyone else mentioning here. To get the maximum LF response out of LABS you need to group them together in large numbers. The magic number being 6.  So a build of 12 Lab subs (2 blocks of 6 on each side) would probably be your best bet.

If you decide to center cluster them.. which is a good way to go.. well you start putting 8 labs together you really need to arc them, or use some sort of delay (read horizontal bass  array)

[Silas Pradetto]

jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) wrote on Sun, 10 January 2010 19:25

Montez Carter wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 02:22 I have eight DIY horn loaded subs they are loaded with the Eminence Kappalite 3015lf.  I always run them center clustered. I have not had any problems with the drivers my problem is that they do not sound linear at all frequencies. At first I assumed it was boundary cancellation but they do this outside too.  I tried to smooth some of it out with eq but the low notes drop way off in d.b.I like them as far as bang for the buck just wish they were constant throughout their passband. I have some Clamshell double eighteen cabs that I milled with the eighteen sound 18Lw1400 and I like the consistency of them.But just to get the numbers that I need is hard with the price of the drivers. And the power that I have to put to them is insane compared the the folded horns. Do you guys think Labs would remedy this problem. I do a lot of hip hop and rnb events and I am looking for that whoa factor. By the way my top boxes are Kf 850ef's. I have been lurking this forum for a while just waiting to pull the trigger even have lab drivers still in the box at the warehouse just have not had time to program tool paths. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks For a 2000-3000 person show your going to need 12-16 labs for that "woah factor". PL6.0's are a very good starting point - I use the PL380 on my labs (driving 2 cabinets a side) and i have plenty of breathing room running the rig hard. A very important thing I don't see anyone else mentioning here. To get the maximum LF response out of LABS you need to group them together in large numbers. The magic number being 6.  So a build of 12 Lab subs (2 blocks of 6 on each side) would probably be your best bet. If you decide to center cluster them.. which is a good way to go.. well you start putting 8 labs together you really need to arc them, or use some sort of delay (read horizontal bass  array)

I don't think you need that many at all. I've done a 2500 person show with NAS in a large gym with 8 LABs and it was 120dB C at FOH 75 feet back with 10dB left on the rig. I'd confidently say 8 LABs can do 5000 people.

[Caleb Dick]

Silas Pradetto wrote on Sun, 10 January 2010 23:03

I'd confidently say 8 LABs can do 5000 people.

Based on similar products (8 Bassmaxx) for 4k+ people, I would confidently say 8 are not enough, even indoors.  For the 'whoa factor' Jeff mentioned, 16+ would be my vote.  

Caleb  

[Montez Carter]

Im glad this thread got revived because now that is our million dollar question, quantity. We did a new years eve event with a dj and rapper off of two track with 3 Kf850's a side over four of our  other DIY folded horns a side and I must say it was a massacre. The 850's ran off and left our subs. (I know I did not do the 2 to 1 ratio but I still hoped for better results). So what ever design I go with I know I need numbers. In fact the timing is so odd that i even discussed at my  company meeting Friday that I am going to log on to PSW and request that someone set up an invite for me to come listen if that is not a problem. Maybe a Conneticut or Maryland trip maybe Silas or Jim B. any hosts willing to take the time would be appreciated.

[Silas Pradetto]

Montez Carter wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 12:44

Im glad this thread got revived because now that is our million dollar question, quantity. We did a new years eve event with a dj and rapper off of two track with 3 Kf850's a side over four of our  other DIY folded horns a side and I must say it was a massacre. The 850's ran off and left our subs. (I know I did not do the 2 to 1 ratio but I still hoped for better results). So what ever design I go with I know I need numbers. In fact the timing is so odd that i even discussed at my  company meeting Friday that I am going to log on to PSW and request that someone set up an invite for me to come listen if that is not a problem. Maybe a Conneticut or Maryland trip maybe Silas or Jim B. any hosts willing to take the time would be appreciated.

Anytime everyone wants to we can have a LAB get-together at my shop. I have a huge parking lot, lots of warehouse space, a studio, and lots of gear to check out. Oh, and 8 LABs, soon to be 12 or 16.

And if you're just an individual wanting a demo, I'd be more than happy to accommodate that too.

[jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)]

Silas.. I've been using 8 Labs (center cluster) in an indoor 1200 person venue for 5 + years now.. 1/2 of the nights are dirty south/freestyle/hiphop.. It is good for the room - but not overkill for these types of shows. (PL380 power).

9 times out of 10 when people say hip hop they mean Rap / Dirty South.. which is pretty much the crappiest music you could ever play on a P.A. system - and its usually played at "10".

[Silas Pradetto]

jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 08:09

Silas.. I've been using 8 Labs (center cluster) in an indoor 1200 person venue for 5 + years now.. 1/2 of the nights are dirty south/freestyle/hiphop.. It is good for the room - but not overkill for these types of shows. (PL380 power). 9 times out of 10 when people say hip hop they mean Rap / Dirty South.. which is pretty much the crappiest music you could ever play on a P.A. system - and its usually played at "10".

I wonder then if your LABs are built right, processed right, or if some room mode is messing with the bass. I can assure you, 8 LABs for 1200 people for any type of music is completely and totally overkill.

[Ivan Beaver]

Silas Pradetto wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 16:32

jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 08:09 Silas.. I've been using 8 Labs (center cluster) in an indoor 1200 person venue for 5 + years now.. 1/2 of the nights are dirty south/freestyle/hiphop.. It is good for the room - but not overkill for these types of shows. (PL380 power). 9 times out of 10 when people say hip hop they mean Rap / Dirty South.. which is pretty much the crappiest music you could ever play on a P.A. system - and its usually played at "10". I wonder then if your LABs are built right, processed right, or if some room mode is messing with the bass. I can assure you, 8 LABs for 1200 people for any type of music is completely and totally overkill.

You have to also read that he said he had been running them for 5yrs.

Assuming no driver failures-that would mean that they are not being pushed to the max-as that type of music is VERY hard on drivers.

And even if being pushed hard-I don't think 8 would be called "totally overkill".

Often those clubs are well beyound "stupid" in terms of level-and it goes on for hours with NO breaks-or cooling off time.

But when one person says it is loud-another says "OK that's nice-when ya gonna turn it up?"

[Shaun Crawford]

ok, i'll toss my quick post into this.

new years eve, we had 600 people.
2 labs (1 per side) handled the show very well. all hiphop, hard hitting music. with headroom to spare on a qsc2450 (1 amp per cab).

[Jeff Babcock]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 17:32

when one person says it is loud-another says "OK that's nice-when ya gonna turn it up?"

+1

Having "enough" is entirely a matter of opinion.