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[Montez Carter]

I have eight DIY horn loaded subs they are loaded with the Eminence Kappalite 3015lf.  I always run them center clustered. I have not had any problems with the drivers my problem is that they do not sound linear at all frequencies. At first I assumed it was boundary cancellation but they do this outside too.  I tried to smooth some of it out with eq but the low notes drop way off in d.b.I like them as far as bang for the buck just wish they were constant throughout their passband. I have some Clamshell double eighteen cabs that I milled with the eighteen sound 18Lw1400 and I like the consistency of them.But just to get the numbers that I need is hard with the price of the drivers. And the power that I have to put to them is insane compared the the folded horns. Do you guys think Labs would remedy this problem. I do a lot of hip hop and rnb events and I am looking for that whoa factor. By the way my top boxes are Kf 850ef's. I have been lurking this forum for a while just waiting to pull the trigger even have lab drivers still in the box at the warehouse just have not had time to program tool paths. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Brian Elstro]

Montez, it would help to have some more info on the cabs themselves. You stated they are DIY, but who is the designer? Did you make them yourself, and are the dimensions (internal and external) exact on all of the horns? What frequency response were you wanting/getting? Your statement leads me to believe the horns are either not properly designed/built (air leaks can wreak havoc on the frequency response of a horn too), or you may have a mis-matched driver in the horn (this is a guess with the limited information). I'm sure that others will chime in, but the more info you can give will help tremendously.

[Silas Pradetto]

A picture is worth 1000 words.

[Montez Carter]

These are Billfitzmaurice Tuba 36's 28 inch internal width all 1/2 inch baltic construction CNC milled all internal panels datoed and assembled with PL adhesive. I have swept them with sine waves and performed an impedence sweep on them so I am sure there ar no air leaks they are built exactly to plans. Not saying they are bad just not what I want at this point in my company's existance. I am just moving into a larger market now and when I play an SB 1000e (original or copy) they just sound linear throughout the passband. If you corner load the Tubas it seems to get a little better on the lower octave but that is not feasible in the 2000-3000 seat market that is paying my bills at this point.

[Elliot Thompson]

Montez Carter wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 16:37

These are Billfitzmaurice Tuba 36's 28 inch internal width all 1/2 inch baltic construction CNC milled all internal panels datoed and assembled with PL adhesive. I have swept them with sine waves and performed an impedence sweep on them so I am sure there ar no air leaks they are built exactly to plans. Not saying they are bad just not what I want at this point in my company's existance. I am just moving into a larger market now and when I play an SB 1000e (original or copy) they just sound linear throughout the passband. If you corner load the Tubas it seems to get a little better on the lower octave but that is not feasible in the 2000-3000 seat market that is paying my bills at this point.

The Lab Subs will meet your requirements. However, you need to bear in mind a EAW SB 1000/KF 850 will be more suited together since the frequencies can overlap amongst both cabinets. You may need to devote more energy in the low-midrange section of the KF 850 since the Lab Subs are not very useful above 80 Hertz.

Also, keep in mind Lab Subs like the SB 1000 will require more amplifiers from an 8-box Tuba 36 versus an 8-box Lab Subs or SB 1000 ratio. You cannot load all 8 Lab Subs on one amplifier as you can (if you do) with the Tuba 36.

And lets talk about power. The EAW KF 850 is a classic touring box and designed to go loud. You will need to have ample amount of amplification for the Lab Subs not because they are inefficient (they are not by any means) but based on the type of music you are reinforcing.  

Hip Hop music offers a lot of SPL emphasis within the 35 – 40 Hz region and, at times will sweep into 30-Hertz. While the Lab Sub will have no problem delivering those frequencies with ease, you do need power to create that type of sound Hip Hop is known for.

Eight Labs under 4 EAW KF 850s will give you what you are aiming for.

Best Regards,

[Montez Carter]

Elliot when you say 8 labs for 4 kf 850's do you mean 8 center clustered labs for 4 a side 850s or 8 subs to 4 tops a side totalling 16 subs for 8 tops sorry for the confusion just want clarification. I usually run 3 to 6 tops a side if i run 6 i use a 3X3 stack.

[Elliot Thompson]

That would depend on how many KF 850's you have available. For dance music that requires a lot of bass, a 2 sub to 1 top ratio will enable you to achieve the bass required without overdriving your bass amplifiers in the process.

It also enables the user to focus on the type of bass he or she wants and, not settle for the only bass he or she can get for fear of damaging the loudspeakers.

The four KF 850s to eight Lab Subs is what I would recommend as a minimum starting point for that type of music material.

Centre clustering having two columns at opposite locations, or left right stacks will depend on the type of room you are playing in. There is really no right or wrong way under the given conditions, only choices. If you are ground stacking, you do not need to follow a particular rule as if you were flying your tops.



Best Regards,

[Brian Elstro]

Montez, this is just another reason why undersized horns dont work too well, even when clustered. To clarify: even when the mouths of the horns are coupled, the path length is still too short to produce a full wavelength. The only way to allow it to do so is by robbing flatness of response for low end extension and it doesnt work well most of the time (poor ole pete and paul still fighting it out). The frequency chart that Bill has on his site is for a 30" version, and the SPL still is less than 95db @35hz. Not what I or most people would consider great for low frequency work. Also, what you are comparing it to is apples to oranges (I'm assuming it is because of size similarities). The isobaric (IB, vented or otherwise) will win out for size/loudness comparison AND for frequency response comparisons just because of the undersized horn mouth. Its not until you get to as large as the LAB or similar large horn do you realize how much better a horn is IMO. Good luck man, hope to see you around sometime!

[Montez Carter]

I appreciate the help I knew what I wanted and was not hearing but until I looked at the RTA and every time it got in that lower range it just turned into woofer flap excuse my terminology. Then when I compared it to my double 18's they just sounded so much better. I just upgraded to qsc 4.0's for the 15's in the kf 850's  so I am going to give the Labs a go next week as I have three 6.0II's sitting waiting to get in the game. Hope they can fill my bass void. Thanks guys

[Dan Magers]

You might try the 3015s you have in this box:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/127908-jbells-set- four-tapped-horns.html