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[Marjan Milosevic]

I think you should try to simulate a few drivers and see which driver behaves best before spending any cash. I can do that for you but i will need some more info on the boxes. A few pictures will help too.

[Elliot Thompson]

Callan Carnahan wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 12:56

Ohhh okay. Yeah, you're right, that was confusing me. Thanks for the clarification and the help! I think I'll go with the Definimax 18's, then.

The Definimax 18 is not designed for horn loading.

Why don't you just buy the replacement driver from B-52?

It was designed for your box. If you cannot figure out the right parameters in order to buy the correct driver that will adapt to your B-52 subs, it would be more logical to just buy the replacement from the manufacture that offers their logo on the loudspeaker cabinet.

The only driver that would work based on the recommendations is the one you cannot afford. Eighteen-inch drivers designed for horn loading range from $350 and up. You stated B-52 offers a replacement for $220.00

Do yourself a favour and just buy the replacement from B-52 and, be done with it.

Best Regards,

[Marjan Milosevic]

Elliot, i don't think that B-52 is putting a very good driver in that box at the first place.
As i have also said we need to see some pictures of the box inside and the driver.

As far as Definimax driver you are right it is at the verge of usability in the horn. But Eminence Omega Pro is and it is cheaper than the definimax. That is if he likes to stay within the Eminence brand.

[Elliot Thompson]

Marjan Milosevic(MarjanM) wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 15:28

Elliot, i don't think that B-52 is putting a very good driver in that box at the first place. As i have also said we need to see some pictures of the box inside and the driver. As far as Definimax driver you are right it is at the verge of usability in the horn. But Eminence Omega Pro is and it is cheaper than the definimax. That is if he likes to stay within the Eminence brand.

There are a lot of B-52 users in the States and, it is very rare I hear anyone needing to replace the driver.

I don't see how a speaker not designed for a horn-loading is going to perform better than one designed for horn-loading in which he damaged based on user error. B-52 has improved greatly in the past 10 years.

"4-inch “inside/outside” voice coil wound on both sides of the glass fiber coil former, providing more effective cooling through greater air contact." That is not a terrible loudspeaker.



http://www.b-52pro.com/Products/LX18V3.html

They also sell the same replacement driver, so it is like buying a brand new folded horn that will perform to spec.

http://www.b-52pro.com/Products/Components.html



Best Regards,

[Marjan Milosevic]

I agree. Just that driver really look like an Eminence product

[Elliot Thompson]

Marjan Milosevic(MarjanM) wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 16:14

I agree. Just that driver really look like an Eminence product

Eminence sells the most OEM loudspeakers in the United States. It was only in the late 1990's they began selling off the shelf components to the public.

I have nothing against Eminence Products. They are a good company. The market is saturated with more low-line Eminence speakers based on the cheapskate customer mentality. I cannot fault Eminence on that. It is purely supply and demand.

Best Regards,

[Callan Carnahan]

Elliot, thanks for the input. It's appreciated.

Talking to my "business partner" we've kind of agreed that it'd be easiest to get the B-52 replacement directly from them, though we're hoping that this one performs better than the previous one. I think it may have just been a squib driver that we got. And you're right; I've a friend with four pairs of the subs that I have and two of the B-52 2x15 tops and he's had no problems with them in two and a half years about 4 or 5 times a month. Again, mine may have been the bad apple in the barrel.

I can still take picture of the inside of it and post them if you'd like, then Marian, you could run some trials and what not. I'd greatly appreciate that.

Thanks for the help guys. It's great to have good resources with good feedback!  

[Glenn Williams]

I have been retrofitting E-Horns and W bins for more than 25 years.

The Definimax 18" certainly is designed for horn loading, as was the original Omega driver before they changed it completely in it's redesign and the appropriate parameters were designed into the Definimax. The original Omega had vastly different TS parameters than today's two versions. Those parameters included a Bl factor in excess of 25 Tm. I used lots of them. The newer versions of the Omega from the arrival time of the Definimax, were designed for Bass Reflex enclosures.

The Definimax 4018LF has an Fs of 32hz, a QTS of .35, a Bl factor of 27.0 Tm, and a ribbed cone to add rigidity in order to facilitate the compression of air, thus forcing it through a restricted throat area. Manufacturers do not design in high Bl factors for any other reason, that I am aware of. A ribbed cone is indicative of a woofer designed for compression loading and it is not a requirement in Bass Reflex loading.

The ideal woofer for horn loading should have a Bl factor or "Shuv Factor" in excess of 25 Tesla Meters. 20 Tm is not enough motor strength to withstand the rigors of compression chamber loading. Ideally the QTS should be less than 30 as stated previously and the Fs should also be in the low 30s.

That said, variance slightly with regards to the QTS and Fs are tolerable if under 40 in either case. There is a likelyhood of ringing occurring if the numbers exceed that. 25+ for the Bl factor is a must.

The biggest bang for the buck in a specifically designed woofer for E-horn replacement, (which technically is more of a variant of a Voight Pipe than an actual Folded Horn),is the Selenium 18WFH1P-SLF. The W stands for W-bin and the FH stands for Folded Horn. Selenium makes this woofer and it's variants that include the WFH2P and WFH3P, which are not readily available in this country.

The afforementioned 18WFH1P-SLF is available at Parts Express and I have also used it many times with great success. It features an Fs of 34.5, a QTS of .37 and Bl factor of 27.7, and sells for $186.61. Furthermore, it is rated for considerably more power than 1000 watts program or peak.

          http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7& ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;Partnumber=264-398&ctab=2#Tabs

[Art Welter]

Glenn Williams wrote on Sat, 31 October 2009 07:13

I have been retrofitting E-Horns and W bins for more than 25 years. The Definimax 18" certainly is designed for horn loading, as was the original Omega driver before they changed it completely in it's redesign and the appropriate parameters were designed into the Definimax. The original Omega had vastly different TS parameters than today's two versions. Those parameters included a Bl factor in excess of 25 Tm. I used lots of them. The newer versions of the Omega from the arrival time of the Definimax, were designed for Bass Reflex enclosures. The Definimax 4018LF has an Fs of 32hz, a QTS of .35, a Bl factor of 27.0 Tm, and a ribbed cone to add rigidity in order to facilitate the compression of air, thus forcing it through a restricted throat area. Manufacturers do not design in high Bl factors for any other reason, that I am aware of. A ribbed cone is indicative of a woofer designed for compression loading and it is not a requirement in Bass Reflex loading. The ideal woofer for horn loading should have a Bl factor or "Shuv Factor" in excess of 25 Tesla Meters. 20 Tm is not enough motor strength to withstand the rigors of compression chamber loading. Ideally the QTS should be less than 30 as stated previously and the Fs should also be in the low 30s. That said, variance slightly with regards to the QTS and Fs are tolerable if under 40 in either case. There is a likelyhood of ringing occurring if the numbers exceed that. 25+ for the Bl factor is a must. The biggest bang for the buck in a specifically designed woofer for E-horn replacement, (which technically is more of a variant of a Voight Pipe than an actual Folded Horn),is the Selenium 18WFH1P-SLF. The W stands for W-bin and the FH stands for Folded Horn. Selenium makes this woofer and it's variants that include the WFH2P and WFH3P, which are not readily available in this country. The afforementioned 18WFH1P-SLF is available at Parts Express and I have also used it many times with great success. It features an Fs of 34.5, a QTS of .37 and Bl factor of 27.7, and sells for $186.61. Furthermore, it is rated for considerably more power than 1000 watts program or peak.            http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7& ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;amp ;Partnumber=264-398&ctab=2#Tabs

Glenn,

Good info.

Do you have a preference for the Selenium 18WFH1P-SLF or the Definimax?

How would you rate the two for LF extension and which has less distortion?

[Glenn Williams]

Both are very similar. The Selenium is very smooth, as is the Definimax.

I would not spend the extra money to buy the Definimax. I do not believe that either provides any greater lower extension. You really need 4 boxes to do that.

Although I have 5 other sets of subs, I am retroing 2 sets of CV B-36s at the moment. The Selenium outperforms the JE188 originals significantly.

The originals are rated 250/500/1000 and sound somewhat muffled if you will. Either of the two others provide greater clarity.

I prefer CV-B36s in a coupling of 4 units to get improved lower extension. The only application that I use them for is outdoors at Car shows and County fairs.

An E-horn fully encompasses the woofer and as such it is less likely to get weather damaged. They also are more impervious to dust at County fairs. Further to that, it is easy to pick these boxes up cheap with blown woofers or empty.

The ppl who own them typically blow the originals and put a woofer in with lower Bl factor and blow those in pretty short order. They get fed up with them and sell them cheap after the cycle continues a couple of times.

I paid $65 per box for 4 of them and ordered 4 Seleniums. I have not installed them as yet, but I did do exactly this 3 years ago for a friend. I have been borrowing his. (that was the cost of his retrofit). They sounded quite good coupled. Not fabulous, but decent and much better than the originals sounded.

The B36 is only 12 cuft and rolls into place outside very easily.
I can move 4 of them in a minivan and they prevent my indoor subs from getting ratty.

So I tie up only about $250 per box. I can always sell them at that price and get my money out of them.

What are you retrofitting?