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Author Topic: FOH Frequency Response Curve  (Read 5883 times)

ZhaoLi Seow

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FOH Frequency Response Curve
« on: September 28, 2009, 01:29:06 am »

Just came back from a festival show. I noticed that all the FOH engineers tuned their system flat from 100Hz to 10+kHz. Below 100Hz, they had a boost of 6-12 dB in the sub region. Mix was bright at FOH location, but was just nicely warm when listening from outside the tent.

I will mix indoors and when I tune the system, I usually tune the system with a 18dB drop from 20Hz to 20kHz for indoor systems. I know flat doesn't sound good indoors, some people tune with a gentle roll off above 2kHz.

What do you guys tune the system to, for shows both indoors and outdoors?
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Jeremy Oswin

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 02:58:53 am »

I've been tuning both indoors & outdoors with a gentle roll off above 2k, flat below that.  This is based on an averaging of many positions everywhere from 1 meter on axis to 3 or 4 positions throughout the audience.  The resulting frequency response tends not to be perfectly smooth in any one position, but roughly as balanced overall as any other.

Canned music and low frequency heavy instruments seem to require a significant eq boost in the low end with this tuning, and that works for me because every other instrument has that much less low end respectively.

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Charlotte Evans

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 06:13:43 am »

I prefer to notch out the real nasties at the DSP, leaving the FOH graphic as a "grab EQ" for emergencies or for any variations between daytime/dewpoint outdoors and empty/full venue (hopefully!) indoors.
Very rarely need to hack at graphic EQ's, it usually means the set-up in the DSP needs to be looked at.

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Charlie Zureki

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 06:31:57 am »

ZhaoLi Seow wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 00:29


I will mix indoors and when I tune the system, I usually tune the system with a 18dB drop from 20Hz to 20kHz for indoor systems. I know flat doesn't sound good indoors,.....


 Hammer

 18dB drop? ... so... basically, you just lower the Gain?

Hammer
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve-Measurement types
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 07:54:31 am »

I would argue it depends on the type of measurement system used.

RTA or dual transfer (or other time based system).

Agreed on the RTA. Flat never sounds good-I tried for years to get an RTA system to sound good flat.

I tune (system alignment) my systems flat from around 100Hz up to as high as they system wil reproduce-typically around 12-15KHz.

The whole idea that the loudspeaker system should reproduce as accuractly as possible what if coming into it from the console.

Below 100Hz there is anywhere from a very slight boost (or none) to a pretty good suzed boost-depending on the customers needs.

Typically I use Systune or Smaart for system alignment.

While I use TEF for loudspeaker measurement-the very thing that makes it great for that, makes it lousy for system alignments.  The ability to window out except what is coming out of the loudspeaker.  Great for response graphs-but our ears are still hearing more than just the direct signal.

Systems that have a wider "window" respond to more of what our ears are hearing-therefore give a better representation.

Then there is the whole "taste" factor.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve-20-20KHz?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2009, 07:59:42 am »

ZhaoLi Seow wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 01:29

I will mix indoors and when I tune the system, I usually tune the system with a 18dB drop from 20Hz to 20kHz for indoor systems.



So your live systems are solid down to 20Hz and go up to 20KHz?  What type of loudspeaker system are you using?  Where would this be measured at?

Is this a straight line drop from 20Hz to 20K or does it flatten out somewhere or does it look more like a phase response curve of a bandpass filter-but with amplitude in place of degrees?    
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Kristian Johnsen

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 08:33:31 am »

I THINK he meant that he starts out with the 20 Hz slider at o dB and rolls off progressively until the 20 kHz slider is at -18 dB.
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Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 10:12:31 am »

It's a pretty good question I haven't gotten around to raising, especially with respect to line arrays which usually start out with extremely big lows compared to highs.  How much do you flatten out the response when system tuning?  I've even heard of people under-reporting the number of cabinets to the DSP (Meyer array correction) to leave the lows/mids still hotter than the highs.

Dick Rees

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 10:21:53 am »

ZhaoLi Seow wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 00:29

Just came back from a festival show. I noticed that all the FOH engineers tuned their system flat from 100Hz to 10+kHz. Below 100Hz, they had a boost of 6-12 dB in the sub region.


How do you know this?  Did you ask or receive documentation?  Were you just looking at a graphic?  Were the system DSP settings posted for all to see?  If not I assume this is an assumption on your part.

Quote:

Mix was bright at FOH location, but was just nicely warm when listening from outside the tent.


In other words, it seemed brighter inside a highly reflective environment where the highs bounce around like berserk kangaroos and not so much outside where the reflections were on holiday.


Quote:

I will mix indoors and when I tune the system, I usually tune the system with a 18dB drop from 20Hz to 20kHz for indoor systems. I know flat doesn't sound good indoors, some people tune with a gentle roll off above 2kHz.

What do you guys tune the system to, for shows both indoors and outdoors?


I use my ears and do what it takes to get it to sound right to me.  Sometimes it goes by the book, sometimes I need to add a new page......
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Gene Hardage

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Re: FOH Frequency Response Curve
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 10:33:41 am »

Dick Rees wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 10:21


I use my ears and do what it takes to get it to sound right to me.  Sometimes it goes by the book, sometimes I need to add a new page......



Yes & yes.

When using my full "A" rig I have an Ashley EQ handy that could be inserted in the vocal sub group if needed.  So far that has not been the case but I have not had to use this rig inside a horrible hall yet - mostly outside stuff.  I don't have any measuring tools except the two on the side of my head.
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