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Author Topic: dsp failure  (Read 7600 times)

Tim Padrick

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Re: dsp failure and thoughts on redundant system design
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 03:56:17 pm »

You could use several of these for switching: http://www.radialeng.com/re-sw8.htm

If enough units were involved, you might get then to build one with a higher channel count, and sans the unnecessary transformers.  (Customer requests were what prompted the development of the SW8 - and many other products I'm sure.)

Craig Hauber

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Re: dsp failure and thoughts on redundant system design
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 04:01:54 pm »

Excellent idea.  I never realized something like that existed and I would have never thought to look at Radial for something like that either!

You could have the primary DSP generate a test-tone to an unused output that could trigger the box.  Tone goes away with a failure causing the switch -it can even trigger an AC relay to power up the standby unit.

You wonder what type of design robustness was considered.  A concert piece isn't designed for 24-7 uptime in a rack forever.  -But on the other hand can probably handle vibration, crappy power and powering up/down all the time better because of it's touring heritage.

Pity on the connectors though, phoenix would be awesome!  It does look like Radial could probably make you some db-type multipins to just bare-wire fanouts to connect this into your DSP's and amps.

Thanks for the idea

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Tim Padrick

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Re: dsp failure and thoughts on redundant system design
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 10:40:36 am »

Craig Hauber wrote on Wed, 16 September 2009 15:01


Pity on the connectors though, phoenix would be awesome!  It does look like Radial could probably make you some db-type multipins to just bare-wire fanouts to connect this into your DSP's and amps.


We use Horizon for such cables.  Good product, good price, good service.  (Nothing against Radial - quite the contrary.)

Joules Newell

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Re: dsp failure and thoughts on redundant system design
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 03:22:43 pm »

BSS Omnidrives all loose the backlight eventually. I've replaced tens of them, but the unit itself nearly always continues to work

Your worse nightmare is the green range of BSS Soundweb. They have a fan failure issue which causes one of the caps in the PSU to dry up. when this goes the 5 volt rail drops and the unit will tend to lock out any external function. Shortly after, it will die completely until the fan and cap are replaced. I must have replaced over 50 soundweb PSU fans.

Usually the cap will fail quite a few months after the fan fails, so if you can spot it with regular inspections you will only need to swap the fan.

BSS have known about this issue for over 4 years now, and did change from bearing fans to mag-lev fans. However I have had mag-lev fans fail too.

Good system design when using more than one DSP will make your system robust. Do things like run LEFT on one DSP and RIGHT on the other. That way with a few XLR link cables the venue staff can get the other side back on (or MONO switch on the back of the amps)

This is one of the areas where a good installer will provide a better designed system and leave the customer less prone to failure.
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Martin Thorpe

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Re: dsp failure and thoughts on redundant system design
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2009, 09:37:38 pm »

Joules Newell wrote on Wed, 25 November 2009 07:22


This is one of the areas where a good installer will provide a better designed system and leave the customer less prone to failure.


very true!

although in 4-5 years of using a wide range of DSP's, i've only witnessed 2 failures, and i believe both were XTA... well one was a martin dx-1 but same thing i think...

unfortunatly most of our customers are unprepared to pay for a 2nd DSP(s) for failsafe, so this isnt a path i've ever looked at to be truthful

we have a lot of DSPs in nightclubs etc too, so we generally just keep a small rack of analoge equipment (EQ, compressor, crossover) on standby with some patch leads etc just in case, not always the most ideal replacement, but none the less, better than a dead DSP






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Tom Bourke

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Re: dsp failure
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 11:11:47 am »

I tend to fall in the keep it simple crowd.  When I read about all the extra required to make a system redundant all I see are more failure points.  Most of the time I see failures in the external wiring or connectors pulled out.
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Dave Sturzenbecher

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Re: dsp failure
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 11:20:00 am »

Your options here can really open up if you use amps with on-board DSP.   I understand that this only works in new installations, but i know the Crown I-techs (HDs too) have an analog override feature,  where if your digital in goes down, the amp will take the analog input. (This can be fully automatic, or when analog signal is detected it over rides the digital) This analog input can be a direct line off your console.  Remember, in this analog backup mode....you are mainly concerned with getting through the show...  Again, as long as you have DSP in the amps to keep the speakers from frying your ok.  This works real well because your single point of failure is minimized.  As long as your mixer is still up and sending signal, and your lone XLR wire is good, you are making sound. This analog backup line directly from the mixer can simply be daisy chained to every amp. Even if you lose one amp, all the other are still working.

If your amp is not one of the $3000 ones your could rig up a similar setup if you can sum ch1 and ch2.  As long as these two channels are not electrically in parallel you have your DSP hit ch1, and your analog backup line from the console hit ch2. Keep your analog backup line switched off until you lose your DSP. Now this only works if you don't need your amp in stereo mode, and if you lose all your DSP.  You wouldn't want to sum an analog backup signal with a DSP signal that has some latency with it.  I am thinking Crown Xti, Cdi, Dci series here.  

The company I work for makes a unit that does the switching for us. ins and outs for each channel, which is a simple pass through in normal mode.  Then when switched to analog backup mode, a relay switches to a single (analog backup) signal that splits to all outputs.  It is very much a brute force method, but it works.
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