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Author Topic: Totally at lost! New to lighting [sort of[  (Read 1440 times)

John Hyun

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Totally at lost! New to lighting [sort of[
« on: August 16, 2009, 11:51:50 pm »

Hey. I'm mostly a sound person but i've had some interests in lighting growing, and in a couple of months (Jan '10), will need to set up stage lighting for a conference with a band.

so before i go on further, please forgive me and i ask for you patience with these advices.


the only lighting i've ever used was an american dj mixer and i was able to put some different stuff into the banks and what not.  8 par cans in total.  what i want to use for this conference is moving lights.  the closest i've been to mixers with moving light functionality was the avolite pearl mixers, but everything was on presets but it was easy to figure out what is what from playing around with it for a couple of minutes.

Conference + Hotel Details
-the hotel dimensions are: 80x120x16
-there will be a stage, about 80x20 or so
-conference set up sunday evening, but i dont think sound companies normally do business on sundays, so monday setup is ok i guess.  conference starts monday evening and ends thursday evening.
-expecting 500+ attendees
-band: one lead on acoustic guitar, one backup, one elec, one bass, one drummer, one synth/seconday elec

so here's some questions to start off
1) how much does the avolites pearl cost to rent? or something similar? etc?
2) i remember the moving lights as martin mac 700.  i dont know any other brands than martin lighting but im assuming it is a reputable brand.  i forgot what wash they were using.  how much do these cost to rent? i was thinking atleast 10-12 and maybe 6-8 washes?
3) i have no ideas how the power management works with all these lights. i just remember flipping ON switch on a surge (or something similar) to turn on the lights, and a turn a key to power on the mixer.  whats the deal here?
4) how do these lights communicate with the mixer? is it by dmx-512? i can just use a audio snake channel?
5) i was thinking about trussing. how much do these cost to rent? box setup (four corners and top looks like a box) vs just a two corners and truss across.  sorry i dont know much lighting lingo.  i'm guessing some kind of lift system is needed.  genie lift is the only thing that comes into my head.  safety is #1 concern so how do you ensure this thing wont topple over with subs pumping and ppl jumping around?
6) do rental companies allow newbies to come in and learn the system? this may be case by case, depending on the company.  i'd probably have to call and see, but what about you? would you allow that?
7) i've seen once where a light tech comes and sets up the system and all the lights, programs few scenes and then bounce.  some other guy runs the show.  would that be a possible route i can take?
Cool power management. there's going to be a sound system too.  how do i make sure we dont have a power outage or any damage occurring to the equipment?

thanks for you time reading this.
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James Feenstra

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Re: Totally at lost! New to lighting [sort of[
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 12:46:19 am »

John Hyun wrote on Sun, 16 August 2009 23:51


1) how much does the avolites pearl cost to rent? or something similar? etc?
around here most moving light consoles are around $200-300/day

Quote:

2) i remember the moving lights as martin mac 700.  i dont know any other brands than martin lighting but im assuming it is a reputable brand.  i forgot what wash they were using.  how much do these cost to rent? i was thinking atleast 10-12 and maybe 6-8 washes?
$50-75/light/day around here

Quote:

3) i have no ideas how the power management works with all these lights. i just remember flipping ON switch on a surge (or something similar) to turn on the lights, and a turn a key to power on the mixer.  whats the deal here?
cable them up to a power distro and turn the breakers on...pretty straightforward

Quote:

4) how do these lights communicate with the mixer? is it by dmx-512? i can just use a audio snake channel?
via dmx 512 addresses and commands sent from the console, you *might* be able to get away with 60 ohm mic cable but you should really use 110 ohm dmx cable.

Quote:

5) i was thinking about trussing. how much do these cost to rent? box setup (four corners and top looks like a box) vs just a two corners and truss across.  sorry i dont know much lighting lingo.  i'm guessing some kind of lift system is needed.  genie lift is the only thing that comes into my head.  safety is #1 concern so how do you ensure this thing wont topple over with subs pumping and ppl jumping around?
fly the truss on chainfalls or motors from the ceiling...no idea on truss prices as a lot of companies around here have different prices

Quote:

6) do rental companies allow newbies to come in and learn the system? this may be case by case, depending on the company.  i'd probably have to call and see, but what about you? would you allow that?
maybe, depends on the person and if they're working for the rental company...sometimes they'll charge for it...I know I do when I'm training people on a console

Quote:

7) i've seen once where a light tech comes and sets up the system and all the lights, programs few scenes and then bounce.  some other guy runs the show.  would that be a possible route i can take?
yeah, but i wouldn't recommend it

Quote:

Cool power management. there's going to be a sound system too.  how do i make sure we dont have a power outage or any damage occurring to the equipment?
make sure you have sufficient power for both rigs...will require some math

personally I think a light show with around 20 movers is going to be a little overwhelming for someone with relatively no experience...semi-experienced techs get overwhelmed walking into my house rig with pretty much everything they could want already programmed and i'm running something about half that size...you may want to hire a lighting designer for the show instead of trying to figure it out yourself
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James Feenstra
Lighting, Audio and Special Effects Design

John Hyun

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Re: Totally at lost! New to lighting [sort of[
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2009, 10:41:57 pm »

thanks for the reply.

does anyone else have any comments to add?
it seems like reading the manual will be a good start to get the basics down but in the end, the final product will all depend.

does anyone have pricing infos?
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Ethan L. Janzen

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Re: Totally at lost! New to lighting [sort of[
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 11:10:14 pm »

I don't know Rental Prices on any of this stuff, but I can make some recommendations on setup.

Moving Lights I have worked (and had a good experience) with were Martin, Vari-Lite, and High End Systems. Elation and Chauvet also make some.
Martin typically separates their fixtures by Profile (Spot Fixture), or Wash Fixture. The 700 Series has both a Wash and Profile.

Power, you can check out each lights manuals for Amperage rating. Some lights Require 208V some 120V others are switchable.
A moving light distro can have 3 phase camlock in with individual breakers for each light.

All lights should be wired up using 110 Ohm DMX Cable. Causes less signal corruption between lights. Corruption = Lights going crazy.

Trussing depends on how big of a box you want. The longest length of unsupported truss is like 40ft, but you have to factor in weight and truss size. If you look at truss specs it will give you a more detailed chart with weight ratings. You can use Genie Lifts to raise the truss to height and then put it on Vertical Truss Towers. Or if you are able, you can use rig it from the ceiling. If your stage and truss is really going to be 80' long then chain motors may be your best bet, unless you want vertical truss towers in front of the center of the stage.

Sometimes one person programs the entire show into cues, and then another person just hits Go on the cue faders.

Links
http://www.vari-lite.com/
http://www.highend.com/
http://www.martin.com/
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Ethan Janzen
Sales Associate
Ronco Specialized Systems

sergei

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Re: Totally at lost! New to lighting [sort of[
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 10:29:47 pm »

how the heck are you going to pull this off !!!! Your event is on monday, you can not make it, if you set everything up by monday! with no Experience you will need at least 2 days to set up the light and sound system you need to know the room, the ceiling, the ac etc, etc, etc.
in my case i will not rent you any thing if you don't know what you are doing especially rigging the lights.

look for a profesional sound & light company to help you out and pay attention to how they set the lights up, for the next time you want to do it yourself.

Sincerely
Sergei Halabi
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