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Author Topic: Danley Demo Review  (Read 40913 times)

Phil Lewandowski

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2009, 09:53:50 am »

Winston Gamble wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 01:27



I've never heard the Growler, but I've also never had anybody complain about any missing 5hz of low end from our TH-Mini's. Sure, it's probably apparent to a bunch of sound nerds if you have the two next to each other. I'm sure all of us would notice the difference in response between the two if we could listen to them both at the same time. But for live rock and blues, most bar patrons probably wouldn't notice the difference even if you pointed it out. Although they would nod and make agreeable noises. Rolling Eyes
Obviously the Growler is a quality product as is evident from all the positive feedback it receives here. However, I don't understand why it's always being compared to the TH-Mini. It's not that much smaller than a standard single 18" sub so if size is a major concern there just isn't much comparison between the two what with the Mini being about 40% smaller.  


Sure, I like extended low frequency response as much as the next guy, but I don't have the pack space and we really don't need it.    Winston


Hey Winston,

All very valid points!  I think the reason the TH-Mini and Growler are compared so much is because they are the most well known *horn* loaded (Meaning non-direct radiator subs) that have a smaller footprint.

The TH-Mini is a very good amount smaller than the Growler and I think that the briefcase size is very, very important to many people, like yourself.


I think if you heard them side by side you would agree about the sound, but that is ok, because there has to be some sort of trade-offs for such a small size.  It came down for me that I didn't need such of a small size that the Mini offered and I really like the extra extension that the Growler offered, which makes sense that it wasn't just 5hz, but more like it was slightly more efficient in the 35-50hz region and was noticeable.  Again, this doesn't make one product necessarily better than the other.

So I would curious in something maybe Growler sized or just a tad bigger in Tapped horn form and see what kind of performance you could get from that, that would be a step up from the Mini, but not quite to a TH-115.  (And a powered and processed version at Tim Mc. mentioned could be quite popular too!)


Take Care!

Phil

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2009, 12:15:40 pm »

Michael Hedden Jr. wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 08:56

Tim McCulloch wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 07:32

Tim Mc


"Shimmer, It's the best shine you've ever tasted!"

Mike Hedden
Old School SNL Fan
Danley Sound Labs, In.c


I thought the best "shine" was up in the North Carolina mountains. Laughing

Those 'ol hillbillies know how to cook some shine-or so I have heard.
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Danley Sound Labs

Ron Kimball

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2009, 12:53:12 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote:

I thought the best "shine" was up in the North Carolina mountains.
Ain't no shine I ever tasted that tasted "good" Sad. More like reject rocket fuel with a hint o' Drano. Now lab grade ethanol, that's some good stuff. Back in school there was some good ol' boys in the Chem Eng Dpt that would order up an "extra" barrel any time they needed some for the labs - good friends to know and got invited to all the best parties Wink.
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Phil Lewandowski

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2009, 12:56:33 pm »

Michael Hedden Jr. wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 12:54


What price range would be acceptable? Please, keep it realistic,i.e., non Pacific Rim or DIY hobbyist type pricing.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.


I am thinking in the $1000-2000 range, since the Mini is in the $1200 range.
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Adam Schaible

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2009, 09:46:39 pm »

How come this hasn't been moved to the review section?
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Caleb Dick

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2009, 05:53:59 pm »

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 09:56

Michael Hedden Jr. wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 12:54


What price range would be acceptable? Please, keep it realistic,i.e., non Pacific Rim or DIY hobbyist type pricing.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.


I am thinking in the $1000-2000 range, since the Mini is in the $1200 range.


That's a big price gap.  I like both the 115 and Mini a lot, for their respective uses.  The TH-115 is an awesome sub, and a great value IMO; there would have to be something to make a next-step-down model attractive.  A slightly larger, powered, 15" Mini very competitively priced, that drops off below 45hz?
 
Caleb
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Caleb Dick
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Phil Lewandowski

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2009, 08:27:06 pm »

Caleb Dick wrote on Tue, 25 August 2009 17:53

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 09:56

Michael Hedden Jr. wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 12:54


What price range would be acceptable? Please, keep it realistic,i.e., non Pacific Rim or DIY hobbyist type pricing.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.


I am thinking in the $1000-2000 range, since the Mini is in the $1200 range.


That's a big price gap.  I like both the 115 and Mini a lot, for their respective uses.  The TH-115 is an awesome sub, and a great value IMO; there would have to be something to make a next-step-down model attractive.  A slightly larger, powered, 15" Mini very competitively priced, that drops off below 45hz?
 
Caleb


Yeah, wanted to give Danley something to work with, Wink


Phil
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Rory Buszka

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2009, 11:10:49 pm »

From the DIY department, here's a tapped horn design that a friend of mine and I designed and built in April 2008. It's an unconventional design in that it deviates from the typical conical tapped horn by incorporating a 2.2:1 restriction at the mouth that forms an acoustic mass element, effectively shifting the low corner of the horn down to about 45 Hz. This makes it the first (that I'm aware of) in a new class of tapped horn designs: the "Mass-Loaded Tapped Horn". Put simply, a bit of efficiency is sacrificed to achieve a slightly lower corner frequency; the tradeoff is that the more mass is added, the lower the overall efficiency. A very small amount of mass is added in this design, but I've seen promising things from designs where more mass is added.

Since this first prototype was built, a second driver has been added. It's seen quite a bit of use in bars, where its small footprint makes it easy to tuck away, and I've never heard a disagreeable sound out of it. The only measurements we have so far are fairly crude, and were simply used to verify the LF corner frequency of the design. I only submit it as an example of what's possible when bottomless LF extension isn't the goal. It more than keeps up with the pair of vintage EAW tops that it gets used with, and is usually driven with 600 watts or so.

The working title for the design is the "Hornet". Jerry McNutt of Eminence is using a 40Hz version designed for the HL-10 and is pleased with it; development of the ML-TH concept is ongoing.

index.php/fa/24592/0/
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Best Regards,

Rory Buszka
(The Gearmonger)

If it works, but you don't know why it works, then you haven't done any engineering.

Paul Dershem

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2009, 11:56:29 pm »

Thanks for sharing this.

Stupid question: Does the added mass mean an amplifier can stop the cone's motion more effectively (but less efficiently), reducing unwanted cone resonance in the process? Does this cabinet sound, for lack of better words, "tighter," or "quicker?" Seems like the added mass might effect back-EMF; does it?
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Rory Buszka

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2009, 12:20:02 am »

Paul, in our experience the mass-loading actually increases the acoustic impedance at the 'mouth'-end of the waveguide, which causes a wavefront traveling down the horn to be reflected back into the horn again before it can be radiated. Think of it as the wave going back and forth inside the horn until it has picked up enough steam to 'jump out' of the enclosure through the mass element.

The increase in acoustic impedance at the mouth of the waveguide increases group delay, which tends to increase the subjective 'resonant' character of the waveguide over a tapped horn which is not mass-loaded. The more mass that is added, the higher the spike in group delay at the corner frequency appears to be. Also, demands on cone excursion are slightly increased, but not greatly. This happens when the quarter-wave resonant mode gets shifted down below the driver's own resonant frequency. There is still no free lunch, but the mass-loaded tapped horns built so far have still exhibited a subjectively less 'boxy' sound than competitive bass-reflex designs. As with just about any design it's possible to 'overdo' it (in this case, by adding too much mass).

I don't mean to hijack the thread - I just wanted to submit an example of a tapped horn design with a form factor that's very well suited to portable use, with an LF response characteristic that's very close to what was being discussed in the last few posts.
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Best Regards,

Rory Buszka
(The Gearmonger)

If it works, but you don't know why it works, then you haven't done any engineering.
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