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Author Topic: Danley Demo Review  (Read 40865 times)

Silas Pradetto

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2009, 08:22:04 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:06

Are you sure you have EVERYTHING wired up for proper polarity?

Inside the cabinet-the 4 cond wire itself (connectors)-polarity setting inside the amp and so forth.

Turn off one channel and listen.  Now turn on the other.  Does it get louder?  If not, then there is a polarity issue somewhere.

So put a eq cut at 200Hz if you want.  No big deal.


Ivan, I confirmed that the polarities are all correct. If they weren't I'd be getting no sound at all. Now I'm not saying I'm getting nothing, I just don't seem to be getting the performance I'd expect...for some reason the drivers are bottoming out way early, I do think something is wrong with the setup and I'll be checking it out soon.

I tried the TH412 wired stock as 2 ohms on one channel of an IT4000 at first, which is only 1800 watts, and it took that power no issues right up to clip and sounded great. The sound quality of the TH412 is certainly better than the LABs, mostly in the top end, but the TH412 still doesn't seem to go as loud.

When I used the TH412 on the IT4000 it was reading 2 ohms, but when I used it on the IT8000 the channels measured 7 and 6 ohms. I'd figure that it should be reading 4 ohms, but the Itech load impedance meters are notorious for being off.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2009, 08:33:25 pm »

Adrian Genovesio wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:14

 Why does everyone doubt my findings? Fly over to my shop and you can see for yourself.

Edit: just realized I'm using the computer that Adrian was logged into...let me switch over to my office computer for the next post Embarassed


I wasn't doubting what you were hearing.  But it just seems like something is wrong-somewhere.

If I said I had never miswired something, or had weird things happen that always turned out to be the gear-then I would be lying.  I can't count the times I have made bonehead errors that made gear look bad-but turns out it was my fault in something I had done-wiring-settings etc.  OOPS Embarassed

Heck, at the NY subshootout-with all the sound guys there, on the second day when we went to "play" with the subs, we pounded away at  what we "thought" was a pair of TH115's.  Untill one started to smoke.  During the troubleshooting phase that followed-it turned out that only ONE was getting signal.  I don't remember what the problem ended up being-routing or cabling.

It happens to all of us.  If it hasn't happened to you, you haven't done it long enough.

I was just suggesting a logical path of troubleshooting to follow.

When something doesn't seem right-then try to find what might be wrong.

The second step of troubelshooting is that if something is not sounding right, don't keep on pounding on it-thinking it will get better.  Slow down a bit.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Silas Pradetto

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2009, 08:45:00 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:33

Adrian Genovesio wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:14

 Why does everyone doubt my findings? Fly over to my shop and you can see for yourself.

Edit: just realized I'm using the computer that Adrian was logged into...let me switch over to my office computer for the next post Embarassed


I wasn't doubting what you were hearing.  But it just seems like something is wrong-somewhere.

If I said I had never miswired something, or had weird things happen that always turned out to be the gear-then I would be lying.  I can't count the times I have made bonehead errors that made gear look bad-but turns out it was my fault in something I had done-wiring-settings etc.  OOPS Embarassed

Heck, at the NY subshootout-with all the sound guys there, on the second day when we went to "play" with the subs, we pounded away at  what we "thought" was a pair of TH115's.  Untill one started to smoke.  During the troubleshooting phase that followed-it turned out that only ONE was getting signal.  I don't remember what the problem ended up being-routing or cabling.

It happens to all of us.  If it hasn't happened to you, you haven't done it long enough.

I was just suggesting a logical path of troubleshooting to follow.

When something doesn't seem right-then try to find what might be wrong.

The second step of troubelshooting is that if something is not sounding right, don't keep on pounding on it-thinking it will get better.  Slow down a bit.


I was more pointing out the ridiculousness of the crossover accusations. Like I wouldn't notice if I was sending full range to the sub? I definitely ran pink first full range, and let me tell you, the wash coming off the back of those woofers is LOUD.

I've made all sorts of errors before. At a show, one of my guys Plugged an IT8000 into the first four LABs and another IT8000 into the second four labs, but jumped both blocks of four LABs...effectively jumping both amp outputs. I was trying to figure out why the amps were in thermal/clipping without much bass, until I thought of "I didn't patch it, let me check it".

The sound of the woofers bottoming out was extremely loud and obvious, so I can only assume that there was an issue with the setup somewhere. The signal chain was pretty simple; out of my interface into the IT8000, out of the IT8000 with one 4 conductor cable into the sub. Inside the sub I had wired it so that two woofers were on +-1 and two were on +-2.

I'm going to set it back up right now and mess around with it some more.

How does Danley do "peak" power? I'd assume it would be double the "program" rating. Are there any voltage specs for the woofers so I can dial things in exactly? Like I said before I had the RMS power limiters set at 1400 watts @ 4 ohms but I never saw them limit...
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Demo Review-Not quite.
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2009, 08:45:15 pm »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:22

Ivan Beaver wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:06

Are you sure you have EVERYTHING wired up for proper polarity?

Inside the cabinet-the 4 cond wire itself (connectors)-polarity setting inside the amp and so forth.

Turn off one channel and listen.  Now turn on the other.  Does it get louder?  If not, then there is a polarity issue somewhere.

So put a eq cut at 200Hz if you want.  No big deal.


Ivan, I confirmed that the polarities are all correct. If they weren't I'd be getting no sound at all. .


Not quite.  If they were out of polarity, you would be getting lots of cancellation, but nowhere near "no" sound.

Try it sometime on some other loudspeakers.  Run a pair and then flip the polarity on one of them.  See if the sound all goes away.

In the electronic domain you will get cancellation if the levels are evenly matched-but not in the physical domain with loudspeakers.  There are still all sorts of "differences" with drivers that are not occupying the same space and are perfectly identical.

Also are you sure that you are driving both sets of drivers?  If you are only driving one set (for some reason) both sets will be moving and not only one set not be helping the other set-they will actually be working against the working set resulting in low sound output and poor quality sound.

A couple of years ago at an Infocomm Danley had a very important client come in to listen to the TH215 before the show opened.  But the TH115 was going much louder and lower than the 215.  I then realized that the cabinet was wired up for 2 8 ohm loads and we were driving it with just a single amp channel-so only 1 driver was working.

We found the problem and quickly rewired it and then the client was much more impressed.  He understood how "things happen".
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2009, 09:01:55 pm »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:45

 Are there any voltage specs for the woofers so I can dial things in exactly? Like I said before I had the RMS power limiters set at 1400 watts @ 4 ohms but I never saw them limit...


As has been discussed here many times-there is no "exact" way to set limiters so you do not have any damage to loudspeakers.

Damage can occur from several different areas.  Mainly Overexcursion and heating (which is both level and time dependant).

The crest factor of the material is a huge part of it.  The peaks of a low crest factor signal will do more damage than peaks of a high crest factor signal-even if the peaks are the same level.  The low crest factor signal is doing more heating of the voice coils.

But for starters, set the peak voltage around 100V.  RMS voltage around 75V.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2009, 09:13:31 pm »

Adrian Genovesio wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 19:14

Peter Etheredge wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:06

What are you using as a crossover?  Is it the one in the iTech?  If so I think there was just a thread where a guy had either an IT or XTi that was passing a whole range of stuff that it wasn't supposed to; perhaps that's the case here?


Yes, I'm using the crossover in the Itech. Don't worry, I'm not stupid Rolling Eyes ; I'm pretty sure the I-techs that I use at every gig are working correctly. Why does everyone doubt my findings? Fly over to my shop and you can see for yourself.

Edit: just realized I'm using the computer that Adrian was logged into...let me switch over to my office computer for the next post Embarassed

I'll pass.  I'll wait until somebody at Danley figures out that the center of the Audio Universe is much closer to the center of the country. Laughing

Tim Mc
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"Will you stand by me against the cold night, or are you afraid of the ice?" Crack The Sky

Ron Kimball

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2009, 10:39:36 pm »

Just looking at the impedance curve published for these big boys I see peaks at 98hz (17.5 ohms), 45hz (10 ohms), and 22hz (11 ohms) with the nominal impedance being 2 ohms. In a "traditional" cab these would be frequencies at which the cone excursion is not well controlled. A 25hz HFP would be right at the frequency at which the impedance is 2x nominal so Danley's Hrecommended HPF at that frequency makes sense. I'll have to assume that the peak at 45hz is magically controlled somehow Wink but I'd sure like to see a published excursion vs frequency chart Smile. The peak at 98hz would worry me a bit as it is by far the larger one, a LPF at 85hz would be right at the 2x nominal impedance point just like the 25hz on the low end so if I was the one messing about with this big guy I'd set my crossover there to prevent any possible over excursion at 98hz. Might also be interesting to raise the HPF above that 45hz peak to 50hz (again 2x nominal impedance) and see what happens. But then again the actual physics of Danley tapped horn subs is a trade secret last I knew so my trying to relate them to "normal" cabs might be a waste of time Very Happy?
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Mike Pyle

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2009, 10:43:50 pm »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 17:22

Ivan Beaver wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 20:06

Are you sure you have EVERYTHING wired up for proper polarity?...


...I tried the TH412 wired stock as 2 ohms on one channel of an IT4000 at first, which is only 1800 watts, and it took that power no issues right up to clip and sounded great....



Until I read this post I was going to suggest that it would have been good to try the sub as it arrived, unmodified. You say here that you did that, and it sounded great, yet after you reconfigured it sounded like crap. If I got those results I would strongly suspect that something might be wrong with my setup rather than the product.
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Mike Pyle
Audiopyle Sound
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Dealer: Yorkville, EV, QSC, RCF, KV2, FBT, EAW, Danley, SLS, Turbosound, dBTech
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2009, 10:47:22 pm »

Ron Kimball wrote on Fri, 21 August 2009 21:39

But then again the actual physics of Danley tapped horn subs is a trade secret last I knew so my trying to relate them to "normal" cabs might be a waste of time Very Happy?


http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf

You can also read the patents online.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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"Will you stand by me against the cold night, or are you afraid of the ice?" Crack The Sky

Ron Kimball

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Re: Danley Demo Review
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2009, 10:59:23 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote:

Ron Kimball wrote:

But then again the actual physics of Danley tapped horn subs is a trade secret last I knew so my trying to relate them to "normal" cabs might be a waste of time Very Happy?
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf
Thanks! That does seem to show three excursion peaks but as it doesn't show the impedance curves it's unclear if they are coincidental. Again it would be real interesting to see the excursion vs frequency curve of this particular cab Smile. In any case I'd have powered this big guy up with an RMX4050HD and been pretty confident it would run happily for years Smile - but then again I don't have to squeeze the last .1db of SPL out of my stuff for them big jobs yous guys do Laughing. I get to try to blow up a pair PV118's with an RMX2450 again tomorrow night - I'll get them cooked one of these days so's I can load them with some of them He-Man drivers yous guys use Laughing.
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