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Author Topic: Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58  (Read 4356 times)

Adam Schaible

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Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58
« on: May 18, 2009, 10:21:51 am »

Hi guys,

    So I am a little short in the microphone department.  I have a Neumann 104, and an EV 767.  One of my friends has a beta 58a.  Now I understand, from a pretty high level, the differences between cardiod, supercardiod, hypercardiod - the beta 58 is a supercardiod, and the 104 is a cardiod.  The 104 I have is so sensitive it's very difficult to use in a live situation with basically any stage noise - it picks up drums, footsteps, everything in the world.  Also, one wrong move and it's not hard to get feedback.

I can get a whole lot more gain on the beta 58, but obviously it doesn't sound nearly as good.  I was looking at the Neumann 105 and it's listed as a supercardiod.  Would I expect similar GBF to the beta 58?

Thanks
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Adam Robinson

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Re: Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 10:45:32 am »

No.  The 105 is just as bloody as the 104.  

I have never had problems with either picking up footsteps, but if my drummer was too close to the lead, the hi-hat bleed was pretty bad.  The artist demanded that the Neumann was used though, so I just worked around it and generally was happy.  I still think both the 105 and the 104 are two of the best sounding vocal mics you can put on a stage, but again, don't expect magic on a 16x16 stage with a loud drummer!  (Our optimum setup was to have the drummer on a 2' riser 16' from the "wedge" line downstage.)

As for the feedback in monitors, if you have a parametric EQ across your mix with a handful of bands, you can zero in on the mic's hotspots and get a wedge pretty stable for a singer with good mic technique.  I did a tour with Microwedges and had a pretty good tuning going as to where I could clip the amp before the mic would feed back on me.  

If you want to keep a condenser on the vocal and want something a bit more tame in monitors, try the new Sennheiser 965 or if you want a better sounding dynamic try the 935 or 945.


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Adam Schaible

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Re: Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 11:03:29 am »

Ok, cool - yeah I'm very new to this.  My rig lacks EQ right now, and I'm learning.
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Andy Peters

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Re: Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 03:25:51 pm »

Adam Schaible wrote on Mon, 18 May 2009 08:03

Ok, cool - yeah I'm very new to this.  My rig lacks EQ right now, and I'm learning.


I would invest in a proper EQ than worry about spending $LOTS on Neumann mics.

-a
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Adam Schaible

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Re: Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 03:48:56 pm »

Any suggestions?
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Justin Bartlett

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Re: Neumann 104 vs 105 vs. Beta 58
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 01:01:02 pm »

I use a Shure KSM9 on a stage about 5 feet from a (shielded) drum kit.  Nothing but vocal; fantastic isolation and its sound is on par with the Neumanns.

A less expensive alternative might be the Sennheiser e865 - a supercardioid consender like the KSM9 (the KSM9's pattern is switchable, much like the new Sennheiser e865).

The e865 is less than half the price of the e965 or KSM9...I do love the KSM9 though.

But as another poster mentions, you may have things other than microphones to work on first.
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