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Author Topic: Bizarre wiring on install  (Read 14174 times)

Charlie Zureki

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 07:34:12 am »

Bradford "BJ" James wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 23:56

Great advise. Thanks guys.
I'm going to go troubleshot what is there to track down the cause of the hum. But, my contact person seems to think they will want the whole system replaced anyways. )
Right now they have about 12-15 horns placed throughout. I would like to replace those, and add a few more for coverage. Plus there is a newly built attached warehouse they want speakers run to. Looks like I'll be running 15-20 horns with them probably being tapped at 15-30watts depending on location. Ambient noise is around 80db. The biggest install amp I've used is the Yorkville CA1. It's only 180watts.
Any good ideas for the 600 watts I'll need?
Thanks,
BJ



  Hello Bradford,

    Being a practical person... I'd ask why replace all of the horns?  Are they not all functioning, or are they really low, low cost models?

  You'd score points and speed up the "repairs" to their system if they don't need to be replaced.  Of course if there are questions with any part of the exisiting system.... then it might be in your interest to replace everything.... but?

  As  far as an install Amp... I always use QSC. Never had any problems with them. I have 12 installed at a Hotel that have never given me any problems.... that install was over 9 years ago ..... they have never been turned off....and operate 24/7 since first installed.

Good Luck,

Hammer

   
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 02:22:36 pm »

I'll agree that the QSC 70v amps are great. I have 4 or 5 of them now and they are fantastic.

Looks like a CX1202V would more than meet your requirements.

In fact split the load up on both sides of a CX602V

Karl P
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Bradford "BJ" James

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 11:16:29 am »

Nice amps, but that may push the budget a bit. BTW, since I have only ever used the integrated mixer/amp combo on 70v systems, what would y'all suggest for a mixer, or is any small format mixer with balanced outs acceptable?
BJ
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Craig Hauber

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 03:19:10 pm »

Do you really need warehouse paging horns tapped at 30W?  They must be fairly inefficient.  I've serviced many a factory-floor with only 4, 8 or 16w horns.  Just a simple little Atlas pager is 106dB at 1W.

A  TOA M-900 mixer would be the higher-end paging solution and you can couple that with a 70V power amp of your choice.  QSC ISA series are good and affordable as is the EV PA series amps which are some of the best bang-for-the-buck out there that's pro and reliable.

However a TOA A-724 mixer-amp with 240W built-in could probably run the whole facility by itself no problem if you verified all the wiring and do the speaker taps properly.



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Tim Weaver

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2009, 10:44:59 am »

TOA is the way to go in a mixer-amp IMO. I've used a bunch of them that have been running for decades. Some with 24/7 duty cycles....
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Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2009, 07:54:56 pm »

Do you really need warehouse horns tapped at 30W?

The reason for that is that whoever installed the system originally had no clue.

-Hal

Al Clayton

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2009, 02:59:38 pm »

Not much to add except that I have been using the Peavey IPA300T almost exclusively in large paging systems with good results. I've installed dozens of them and have never had a failure.

Single Channel, 300Watts, Transformer isolated output, "Speaker protection System Circuitry" (Whatever that means Rolling Eyes )In addition to 70V output, has 25V output (Some municipalities consider a 70V paging system "High Voltage" and require the wiring to be in conduit. A 25 volt system allows for running wire "free air.")

Nothing wrong with the other amps mentioned, I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them.

I guess the only other thing I would Suggest is, if you are planning on doing more of this kind of work, get an impedance meter. (Gold Line ZM-1 or TOA ZM104 are two common models.) Once you have one, you'll wonder how you ever got by without one!
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Bradford "BJ" James

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install-Divide and conquer
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2009, 12:49:35 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 16 May 2009 11:38


Anyway-you have to ask yourself "What am I here to do".  If the complaint is about the buzz-figure that out-I doubt it has anything to do with the weird wiring on the back of the amp.

But it could have to to do with some "other" wiring errors-such as a loudspeaker conductor touching a building ground and so forth.

Unplug all the inputs to the amp and see if the buzz is still there.  If it is not-then go about finding the culprit.



YES!
I went in today to come up with a gameplan for them. I need to be able to eliminate this buzz before I can continue. I brought a horn with me and my ipod. Plugged the horn in and immediately got that buzz they have out in the warehouse. I unplugged the existing speakers so I could troubleshoot without disturbing the workers.
The only thing they have plugged into the mixer is a bogen night ringer. As soon as I unplugged it, buzz is gone. Plugged in ipod, sounds fine no buzz.
I changed a suspect cable from the night ringer output to the mixer input, but it still buzzes. Everything wired to and from the night ringer seems to be OK. Checked the power supply, reversed the polarity, no change.
Suggestions? Is there an isolation box or something I can insert in the path?
Thanks,
BJ

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Dick Rees

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install-Divide and conquer
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2009, 12:55:00 pm »

Impedance matching and/or connecting chassis grounds between the ringer and the mixer.
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Don Boone

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Re: Bizarre wiring on install-Divide and conquer
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2009, 01:49:48 pm »

Time for a $20 transformer. Or a 3 dollar one.
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