Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[sheldon harris]

over the years a  good buddy and i always have these competitions with what ever subs we were using, just a little friendly my sub is better than yours stuff.
recently, his younger nephew has been issuing some challenges.
they have been using the Adamson t21s for a few years now and the nephew thinks they are the best sub ever.


THE COMPETITION:

2 t21 vs. 6 lab subs.

i think the t21s would be powered by 1 lab 10000. each channel per speaker 2500 watts


i am going to power each pair of my labs with a qsc 9.0.

i think its an unfair advantage against the t21s,(i have heard them countless times) the other side do not think so.(they have never heard the lab sub before)

my question is, do you think i can take him with 4 labs instead of 6?

i know when he sees 3 x 2 labs, he is going to reconsider, but i still want to give him a fighting chance, but still not losing.

this is not a review,subs will not be powered or processed the same, he is going to do whatever it takes to win, the same goes for me.
any questions and comments would be appreciated


sheldon

[Evan Kirkendall]

I think 2 LAB's could take 2 T21's! T21's are some of the worst sounding one note wonder subs I've ever used! Not to mention they're huge and annoying to move. 6 LAB's  would just put the T21's to shame. I think he'd leave crying after hearing 6 LAB's.

If you really want to make him run away and cry, get a pair of d&b B2's. That'll take him to the cleaners.


Sorry, I'm just not an adamson fan at all.



Evan

[E. Lee Dickinson]

Start with 2, see how it goes. Then turn on the next pair. Then for fun, add the last pair.

[sheldon harris]

i know the 6 is taking advantage, he doesnt know that of course,
closer to the date, i am going to run the numbers and see how they match up on paper (2 t21s vs. 4 labs)

he was the one that picked the fight, and was even giving me odds, he assumed the lab sub was a cerwin vega type horn with an 18" driver and decided  4 -21" drivers could take 6-18" because of surface area!

when i told him the labs had dual 12" his confidence went to the roof!

little does he know that he is going to get his butt handed to him.

[Silas Pradetto]

This is going to be hilarious. I want a good verbatim writeup of what happens.

[Tim McCulloch]

Silas Pradetto wrote on Mon, 20 April 2009 18:20

This is going to be hilarious. I want a good verbatim writeup of what happens.

I feel a YouTube video of the exchange might be enlightening.

Nudge nudge, wink wink.

Tim Mc

[Art Welter]

Sheldon,

Having heard a very large Adamson sub back in the mid ‘80s putting out more kick/bass than anything of similar size I had heard at the time, including the SDL-7, I’ll be interested in the outcome of this shoot out.

I have not heard the T-21, but would go with Evan’s assessment of a “one note wonder” as characterizing the sound of the Adamson sub I heard, though that also was the way the kick and bass were mixed as I recall.

If Adamson’s T-21 specs are correct, they work out to 106.5 dB one watt one meter, and with the power handling the 140.5 continuous output looks believable.
Double spider Kevlar composite sandwich cones with 6 inch voice coils and a boatload of neo magnet are not like the usual big cone.

In some certain frequency range I think it may be possible that a pair of T-21 subs could have more output than 4) Labs, maybe even 6.
If I remember correctly, the Lab has a droop in the response around 60 HZ, and the T-21 may be “big” there.

How are you going to determine who is the “winner”?

[The Guy]

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Mon, 20 April 2009 01:18

I think 2 LAB's could take 2 T21's! T21's are some of the worst sounding one note wonder subs I've ever used! Not to mention they're huge and annoying to move. 6 LAB's  would just put the T21's to shame. I think he'd leave crying after hearing 6 LAB's. If you really want to make him run away and cry, get a pair of d&b B2's. That'll take him to the cleaners. Sorry, I'm just not an adamson fan at all. Evan

+1.  Not a chance that the T21's will compete with the LABs, except in the category of "PITA factor."

-J

[Silas Pradetto]

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 21 April 2009 13:40

Sheldon, ... If I remember correctly, the Lab has a droop in the response around 60 HZ...

Except that fills in when you put a block of 4 or more together.

[Art Welter]

Silas,

Care to show me the response curve of four LABs compared to one and two cabinets?

Oh that’s right, still waiting on the 4015 LF response curve you promised last winter...

;^)

Art

[sheldon harris]

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 21 April 2009 13:40

Sheldon, Having heard a very large Adamson sub back in the mid ‘80s putting out more kick/bass than anything of similar size I had heard at the time, including the SDL-7, I’ll be interested in the outcome of this shoot out. I have not heard the T-21, but would go with Evan’s assessment of a “one note wonder” as characterizing the sound of the Adamson sub I heard, though that also was the way the kick and bass were mixed as I recall. If Adamson’s T-21 specs are correct, they work out to 106.5 dB one watt one meter, and with the power handling the 140.5 continuous output looks believable. Double spider Kevlar composite sandwich cones with 6 inch voice coils and a boatload of neo magnet are not like the usual big cone. In some certain frequency range I think it may be possible that a pair of T-21 subs could have more output than 4) Labs, maybe even 6. If I remember correctly, the Lab has a droop in the response around 60 HZ, and the T-21 may be “big” there. How are you going to determine who is the “winner”?

in the past, we simply ground stack the subs for the competition,(under a full range cabinet on an aux) subs are processed exactly how they would be in the field, with what ever amplification necessary. each stack is fed from individual L/R outs from a mixer. source input:cd player. winners are determined by spl meter dba and by ear,(how they sound) we also look for stuff like "amplifier clipping" and "audible distortion" if anyone has to "empty" their amplifiers out to keep up, they lose: (in practice, the show would be over not to long after.)

sheldon.

[Marjan Milosevic]

When is this going to happen?
Please take and post lots of pictures and videos from the clash

Get a bunch of cheer leaders too

[Gene Hardage]

Marjan Milosevic(MarjanM) wrote on Wed, 22 April 2009 07:23

When is this going to happen? Please take and post lots of pictures and videos from the clash Get a bunch of cheer leaders too

And where?

[Art Welter]

Sheldon,

Sounds like fun, but you will probably continue to like the sound of your subs better, and he his, so the “by ear” portion may be a draw if your votes are given the same weight.

Considering you have almost double the power, and six cabinets to two, I expect the Labs to dominate.
It would be interesting to turn them on or off one at a time to see where you two are in agreement as to “matched” level, as perceived and by the meter.

Like everyone else reading, I’m looking forward to the results of the competition.

Art Welter

[Gene Hardage]

Let's try this again...

Where will this throw down take place?

[John Chiara]

We need a comparison of a T21 and a Danley TH221.
John

[Michael Hedden Jr.]

John Chiara wrote on Sat, 25 April 2009 22:12

We need a comparison of a T21 and a Danley TH221. John

The TH221 goes almost an octave lower hence it's nickname the Cinemonster. The better choice would be the TH812 but we'd welcome the opportunity to compare either the TH812 or the TH221 to the T21.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

[Silas Pradetto]

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 21 April 2009 19:37

Silas, Care to show me the response curve of four LABs compared to one and two cabinets? Oh that’s right, still waiting on the 4015 LF response curve you promised last winter... ;^) Art

I had Smaart running on those subs the other day; it's finally warm enough. I wasn't specifically measuring the subs though I was measuring some tops, so I don't have anything to post. Soon though I will.

[Marjan Milosevic]

Any update on the subject