Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Steven Warner]

work is slow and im board so Its been a couple of months since Ive bought or sold subs, Its a bad habit i know but i cant help it. Im seriously considering building the labsub but Im not sure It will be worth it to me Ive read that these don't come alive very well with one per side, and that would be all i have room for. would the Yorkville 1208 outdo the labs on the one per side configuration????

I ve also considered Bill's titan 48 but have never heard them and from what I read they like to run In pairs also.                  Iv'e heard the 1208's a couple of times and they would work although they are a bit boomy and Like i said earlier I have the itch and time to build something. also are there any other DIY projects that I should be considering? application IS live rock mostly indoors 2 to 250 people

I have plenty of amps and building experience(Its my day job
any Ideas welcome

[Josh Billings]

I think the LS1208 might sound decent with 1 per side.

The LAB Sub is for bigger shows where 4 or more are needed. There is a big thread comparing a bunch of speakers on here. I posted a request for it a while back... not sure how to find it though

The Peavey QW 218 might be a good option for singles as well

-Josh

[Stuart Pendleton]

Your answer has more to do with frame of reference than anything. I use LS1208's one per side under QRX212 and am happy with them.  They were the upgrade from 2 LS808s per side.  For me, one per side is fine.  I am sure the LAB (which I have never heard) is a better sub, especially in quantity, to the point of no comparison.

With that said, whether you would be happy with 1208 per side depends on what you have been running before. If you have been running Yammie 2x18's, you will be thrilled with a pair of 1208's.  If you have been running TH115s, you will be crying and asking what insanity led you to this.

I do lots of shows for 250 people type events and have NEVER been let down by one 1208 a side, driven off one side on an Itech 6000.  If I could find trailer room for another pair I would have them tomorrow.

[Steven Warner]

the subs i have used/owned yokville sw 1000 and 1004 qw singles and I rented a pair of ucs1 s one time to try them out. all im using now is a set of homemade single 18s reflex B&C loaded with the advice of charlie tappa. all of the above have worked fine but Ive not been blown away or anything considering the power they like to have excepting the ucs1 of course.
Like I said I have the building itch. My first thought was a horn cabs that I might be able to use with the drivers I have (B&C 18ps100) but the more research I do I don't think Its a good idea with the exception of a guy on another forum who used these drivers in his 1208's and said they sounded as good or better....Hmmm
I didn't have any luck finding any 1208 plans out there if I did I might build one and try it just for the hell of it.
I did spend some more time looking at the Titan 48, if I don't get talked out of it that's probably what Ill build, according to Bill graphs they have similar output to the ucs1      

[Jeff Babcock]

Steven Warner wrote on Wed, 15 April 2009 13:33

I did spend some more time looking at the Titan 48, if I don't get talked out of it that's probably what Ill build, according to Bill graphs they have similar output to the ucs1

Keep in mind the T48 is a larger sub than the UCS1. T39, which I have not heard, is more similar in size.  IMHO the UCS1 sounds better than T48 if you are talking about only a couple of subs.  T48 performs much better when you get to a block of 4 or more.

If budget is a concern, I would look for some used LA400's.  They can be had in the $500 range used and hit a lot harder than UCS1 or T48, while not going quite as low.

[Steven Warner]

budget isn't a huge concern, I mean I don't want to spend five grand for a box per side configuration which is all i need, But I will pay for something I like. The free time Is about to kill me and I thought I would like build something fun and I like bulding cabs so thats where Im at.
    Ive never heard the la400 guess Ill check around and try to give it a Liston  

[Josh Billings]

If you're able to build 4 LABs they are an amazing cabinet, but really don't come to life in groups under 4. So if you have a ton of free time and want to make one of the best...Go for 4 of these, you'll be building another 4 in no time

-Josh Billings

[Evan Kirkendall]

LA400's suck suck suck in anything less then 4. They struggle to get below 50hz in 4's, but really don't do much below 55hz in singles. I did a show last year with 2 per side, and while they hit pretty good, the ass is just not there. I was only hearing harmonics of the lower notes rather then the actual note.

The LS1208 will hold it's ground in singles much better then any of the other options.

The UCS1 sounds better then both, but doesn't get as loud. You'd need 2 per side to really get some thump. But 2 per side will get louder then a single LS1208 and would be a lot easier to move! I switched from LS1208's to UCS1's for that very reason. They sound better and go lower. The LS1208 is more "boomy" then the UCS1.

LAB's are the best option, but they are HUGE and don't do so well in singles. They'll do fine in pairs, but singles, not so much.



Evan

[Ryan Lantzy]

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 03:35

LA400's suck suck suck in anything less then 4. They struggle to get below 50hz in 4's, but really don't do much below 55hz in singles. I did a show last year with 2 per side, and while they hit pretty good, the ass is just not there. I was only hearing harmonics of the lower notes rather then the actual note.

I think you had some improperly configured LA400s then.  Like pretty much any other horn, and specifically for the LA400, they have a rising response up through 100hz so if not properly EQ'd they will seeming lack output on the lowest octave of their usable range.

I have used them two per side for several years now, and I have had NO problems with their frequency response.  And according to my ears, RTA and measurement mic, they have plenty of output below 50 down to about 45Hz.  Yes, in blocks of 4 they really shine.  They gain about a half octave of extension.

A few gigs made me question myself over the years, but the next show with a drummer that knew how to properly tune his kick drum, changed that.  

That said, there are those that are never satisfied (like yourself) and always want more low end.  Because more is always better, right?

Quote:

LAB's are the best option, but they are HUGE and don't do so well in singles. They'll do fine in pairs, but singles, not so much.

The LAB sub definitely has about 6-8dB more output than an LA400 below 50hz.  They also weigh nearly twice as much, are 10 inches deeper and taller, and have TWO drivers versus one.  LAB subs are fantastic, I will be the first to support that argument.

That said, it's an apples to oranges comparison IMO.  It's like comparing an SRX718 to a B2.

[Phil Lewandowski]

Yes, the LA400 is -3dB around 50hz without the PEQ EAW recommends, but I would rather look at it without that because it takes away from the max output.

And from 50-100hz, I found the sensitivity to be around 102dB.



So the LA400 will do good with rock stuff, which it what I found. But I went with the Growler for extra low end and slighly smoother response, and of course 1/2 the size!


Take Care!
Phil

[Tim Padrick]

Just buy these: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/424353/255/#msg_ 424353

[Glenn Williams]

Have you considered plans other than the ones you have mentioned?


 http://www.audioroundtable.com/ProSpeakers/messages/367.html

 http://www.audioroundtable.com/ProSpeakers/messages/489.html

It would appear that the horn loading of these "Horn Loaded 4th Order Bandpass Boxes" does not really produce much efficiency below 55hz. The horn portion of the design does not really kick in until then. They are 18.75cuft and 16cuft respectively.

You probably need four "mouth coupled" to get greater lower extension.

Four of either of those would take up a lot of space in a Minivan, and the Titan 48 is too tall to stand up in a minivan and too wide or deep to stack in a minivan.

Here are couple more for your consideration.

http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=1850horn

http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=186horn

Both of these designs are slightly less than 16cuft and look like they have better lower extension.

It is likely that someone here has previously built the ones from Speakerplans.

[Steven Warner]

I have considered all of the plans listed above. the Tuba vs titan thing is that the tuba is stated on Bills site as a dj box,the titan has more output in the higher freq and is recomended for live music. the problem with the titan is the same as with all the horn loaded boxes, I would need more then two.
 I haven't found nearly as much info on the 1850 and 186 horn from speakerplans but from what I have gleaned they would put me in the same situation, and In some peoples opions the titan would kill them. I wasn't worried about the tall factor of the titans I have a trailer.
Im cutting myself off at one box per side so at this point im thinking I might be better off heading back to a set of double 18s....Damn it.      

[Glenn Williams]

Just a couple of thoughts based on your dilemma....(I am just trying to help by providing a further perspective on horns).

Are you aware of why it is said that certain horns need to be used in quantities of four or more pieces?

It is because many horns lack efficiency in the frequencies below 60 hz, as is the case with the Titan 48. By coupling four together, horns benefit from the mouth and throat increases. As such they gain lower extension.

The 1850 is much more efficient in the frequencies below 60 hz and is up to 5db more efficient than the Titan 48 across a significant portion of the bandwidth between 43hz and 60hz.  

In fact it outruns a JBL SRX 728 right down to about 45 hz.
The Titan does extend well below 43hz, but that is of little consequence to me, since I HPF my subs at 40hz as do others.

The Titan is indeed more efficient by a couple of db as the frequency responses rises. A couple of db is not sonically significant and although it increases as one continues towards the higher frequencies, I cross my subs at 100-120db. Anything higher than that is of no consequence to me since it too, is outside the usable bandwidth.

IMHO, I cannot see why anyone would say that a Titan 48 "would kill" an 1850 based on the frequency response vs SPL levels of BFM's own charts.

In the measured responses at the Tulsa Raceway Shootout 2007, the Titan 48 is shown to be even more abysmal below 60hz in real life.

There is certainly no wonder as to why there would be a need for four of them in view of their weakness in the lower portion of the usable bandwidth.

The greater lower extension gained by using just two 1850s would also be considerable in view of their superior response at those frequencies.

Perhaps double 18" subs is your only solution.....and perhaps not.

Cheers!