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[jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)]

You will find the Danleys to be a bit more musical - they sound more front loaded than horn. The labs will go lowers and give you much more pant flap in the lower end where most of our dance bass resides.  The Danleys are much more efficient. I don't like the labs unless you have a big amp on them. (pl328, vz5000, etc)

[Jeff Bailie]

I am always down with a listening.  After every show we set up the whole system in my basement.  Soon it will be warm outside, Then Id be glad to drag it out in the woods. In fact, this summer it will pretty much live in the woods!


PM me if your in the Fort Collins area and I would be glad to give any one a demo.   We use the system everyday at low levels and the neighbors never complain.    


Thanks again to Tom Danley. I feel like I can never say that enough.  

Here is a shot of the current setup in the basement. We listen to a lot of very chill music. Everyone fights for the center of the stereo spectrum.

[Jeff Bailie]

Last week.  

The goal is to try and find the right Balance between the tops and subs, All while trying to keep the house from rattling.

[Chris Cox]

I've been trying for a week now to find a Danley dealer somewhere in my part of the country, and have had no luck.  I've tried the "where to buy" link that Ivan suggested, which, by way of a marketing firm, ended up leading to (what appears to be ) an A/V install contractor - left a message and called several times, no answer, no return call.

Does anyone here know of a Danley dealer anywhere in/near Colorado?

I'm in Fort Collins, but I'm willing to go pretty much anywhere in Colorado if I need to...

thanks,

Chris

[Tom Bourke]

I have worked with the Bagends and I think you have the wrong amp.  I don't think PLX1804 is enough power for them.  It is just on the edge so when you push it the amp starts to run out of power (my guess is current limiting right when you need it.  Try your subs on a set of PLX3602 or better.  One install I worked on had 9 18" drivers per side on 3 PLX3402.  I could make you think the earth was moving.  I also used them in smaller systems.

BTW are you hitting the threshold on the protection in the infra?

I don't think I would buy them now.  I think the trade off you give for such low end is the harmonic distortion.  I had a large gap between the subs and tops to make room for it. It was a nice system to mix on once I had it tuned in tho.

[Ivan Beaver]

Tom Bourke wrote on Wed, 01 April 2009 20:50

One install I worked on had 9 18" drivers per side on 3 PLX3402.  I could make you think the earth was moving.  I also used them in smaller systems. I don't think I would buy them now.  I think the trade off you give for such low end is the harmonic distortion.  I had a large gap between the subs and tops to make room for it. It was a nice system to mix on once I had it tuned in tho.

OK I am confused.  Am I reading you right in that you are running 9 drivers per side of the amp?  Did you do a series parallel configuration (if so what combination) or straight parallel?

Are you also saying that you leave a gap in the freq response between the subs and the mains? To allow for the distortion components in the subs to "fill in"?????


If so-what about the instruments whose fundamental falls in the freq range that you have "vacant"?  What are they reproduced by?

Maybe I am just reading this wrong

[Tom Bourke]

Sorry I should have been more clear.

It was 3 amps with 3 drivers per CH for subs.

As for the the "gap" the system used the bagend processor to split between the mains and subs.  The mains then went into a DSP.(EV DSP and Deltamax 1183 mains)  I think I ended up with the HP on the mains up around 150 or so, maybe a little higher.  That was 7 years ago.  The bagends claim to roll off naturally above 95 Hz.

I did not have any measurement equipment other than my ears and lots of CD's and time mixing on the rig.  With out that gap the system had lots of low mid mud. I attributed it to the harmonic distortion in the Bagends.  Since there was nothing I could do about it I decided to raise the HPF on the mains to reduce the overlap.  It sounded better and was MUCH more tame to mix on after that.  

Looking back with what I know now I would have done things different. But it worked at the time.  I still think those subs had a bit too much garbage out of band.  However given that the OP likes the sound of his rig at low volume and that his sub amps are at the very edge I would try some more powerful amps there first.  I think he will need them any way.

Edit:  I think maybe this was one of those systems where the electronic XO and the acoustic XO were different due to the 12 dB roll of of the sub and the relative levels of the mains and subs.

[Chris Cox]

Tom,

Thanks for the input.  I bought the 1804s specifically on advice from someone at bag end - they recommended not overshooting the rated power handling of the drivers by too much - on the spec sheets it says that the continuous sine wave and instantaneous peak are the same - 800 watts.  I believe this has to do with it being a sealed chamber?  They said an amp that would deliver 900 watts to each dual 18 cab (450 per driver) would work well, particularly given that most of the stuff i do is highly compressed, bass heavy electronic music.  And while I do think that the bag ends sound very nice at low volume, as soon as you start pushing them you end up with a lot of distortion.  And even if I could get a bit more output with larger amps, I just don't think the bag ends have the efficiency, or output to size ratio that I need.  I'm sure I could get a bag end system to rock pretty hard given enough cabinets, but I don't really want to have to lug 10 or 12 dual-18 cabs to every show

speaking of amp power...

I'm wondering about how I should be planning amp power for new subs.  I've done a good bit of reading, many threads, about appropriate power matching between amps and speakers, but in most cases these refer to live sound applications.  Most of the shows I do will be DJ/Laptop live electronic, where the material is very (over)compressed, and is almost always going to have a good bit of (compressed) sine wave sub-bass in the 30-50 Hz range.  So I'm pretty confident that the normal "rules of thumb" are not going to apply...  My thoughts are currently to split the difference between the continuous and program, and make sure I never see the clip lights.  For example, with 4 TH-212s, use two crown xti6000 amps, one sub per amp channel, and so be able to provide 2100 watts to each 4 ohm TH-212.  Does this sound good, or would that still run a significant risk of blowing things up (give the nature of the program material)?

and what the hell, while i'm at it:  Are there significant drawbacks to using amps in 4-ohm bridge mono mode / 2 ohm stereo mode?  I ask because looking at price to output, if the goal is to power 4 TH-212s with around 2000 watts each, getting 4 XTi2000s, at around $600 each, one amp bridge mono 4-ohms per sub, versus two XTi6000s, at around $2k each, one sub per amp channel stereo 4-ohm... it doesn't seem that the extra 100 watts per sub would be worth the $1,600 price difference... but I'm sure there are factors I am ignorant of.

(btw, I'm not set on using XTi amps, they just have good numbers for my examples, I welcome amp recommendations and suggestions.)

also, ignore my previous post, got a call from Joel at Danley today, they are helping me figure things out with finding a dealer  

[Ivan Beaver]

You will never notice a difference of 100 watts at the 2000 watt level.

I prefer the sound (in general) of an amp run in the stereo (or dual mono-whatever) over one run in bridge mode.  But that can vary from amp to amp.

You should be fine with the TH212's and 2000watts @ 4 ohms-just don't tickle the clip lights to much.

Be sure to run a high pass filter to keep the crap out of the subs-but you should do that on any loudspeaker.

[Harley Osterlund]

When you find your Danley dealer let me know I will send you to them with 4 growlers that way there is no guess work as to what works best for your app.  Cheers  Harleys house of sound