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Author Topic: Your Opinion on this System  (Read 4535 times)

antiintel

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Your Opinion on this System
« on: March 27, 2005, 10:18:40 pm »

It looks like we will be getting some money, so over the next few months I'll be piecing together a new system and thought I'd ask for your opinions.  Here's what I've got picked out. No Mackie products just for all of you anti-Mackie folks from my last post.

1x Soundcraft GB8-24
2x JBL SRX722 2-Way Dual 12" Speaker Cabinets
2x JBL SRX718S 18” Subwoofers
4x JBL JRX112M 12" 2-Way Stage Monitors
2x QSC RMX2450 Power Amps
1x QSC RMX 850 Power Amp (we already have one)
2x Furman PL-Plus II Power Conditioners with Volt Meters
1x Shure SLX SM58 Hand-Held Wireless System
4x Shure SM58 Mics
1x Shure PG 6-Piece Drum Microphone Package
1x Shure PG56-XLR Dynamic Drum Mic
4x Mogami Silver Series Mic Cable 50 Foot
35x Mogami Silver Series Microphone Cable 25 Foot
10x Mogami Silver Series Instrument Cable 25 Foot
8x Planet Waves Speaker Cable with SpeakOn Plugs 50 Foot
1x Jade Audio 24 Channel 4 XLR Return Snake 100 Foot
6x DOD VAC265 Stagehand Direct Box with Ground Lift
1x dbx 231 Dual 31-Band Graphic EQ
1x dbx 223XL Stereo 2-Way/Mono 3-Way Crossover
1x SKB SKB-1200 12-Space Mic Case
1x SKB 8-Space Rack Case
1x SKB 12-Space Rack Case

TOTAL COST: $15,888.13 (all from Musician's Friend)

Well, there it is.  I want to get an effects processor for some reverb, so if you have any suggestions for that let me know.  Just remember, we aren't millionairs, so keep your suggestions on the cheap.  The complete system absolutely cannot break $18,000.

Thanks,
Andrew
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Dan Brown

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2005, 10:40:28 pm »

Andrew,
What are you using it for?

I would stay away from the Shure PG stuff.
Save your money and get the real thing, shure or others.
You will be happy you did

Get a snake with at least 8 returns, so you can run at least 4 monitor mixes and left/right.

Go with a good, more price effective cables
like pro co, horizon or rapco, this will save you money.

Before I can say any more, what are you using it for?

[Edit] - A Great inexpensive multi-effects unit I would buy is a
TC Electronics m-oneXL.
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Dan Brown
REACH Communications

Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2005, 11:31:08 pm »

You will definitely need to answer us what you are doing with it before we can comment on any of the speaker side of things.

With that being said, the GB series consoles are nice little consoles, and you should probably also check out Allen and Heath's smaller consoles.

I will also mirror the last poster (wheres your real name ; ) and say forget the PG series. AKG and Audix both make a nice drumkit set. Throw in two overheads and your silk.

Definitely get 6 or 8 returns (maybe a 32 chan snake with 24 sents and 8 returns?) IN XLR! 1/4 TRS on a snake just serves to mess stuff up.

Go ahead and use some Rapco or comparable mic cables for this setup, save some money here and the quality is still good.

What are you doing with the direct boxes? If you will be doing a wide variety of stuff, you definitely should get your hands on EWI (available from audiopile) active direct boxes. Under 100$, sound like they are over 250.

Power conditioners are fine, just make sure they have lights on them, and don't run your amps through them.

Speaker Cables - Go to home depot and buy yourself a spool of 12/2 (or 3, if they don't have 2) rubber jacket extension cable. Get some connectors, and save a bundle. Speakons are really easy.

Rack Cases - If these things are going to move, I would suggest you consider some real cases if at all possible.


Which moves me on to my last point. By the time you get your boxen and amps on here, there will be a decent little order here. You would be much better off talking to a supply house and getting them to price it. Work with them a bit, cut a deal, you can probably get better equipment for the same or less cost than you were planning.


Karl "Get back to us on what your using it for" P
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antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2005, 07:33:57 am »

I'm going to be using it for our youth group.  I'll be using the direct boxes on guitars, bass, and keys to convert the 1/4" signal to XLR.  What's wrong with running the amps through a power conditioner? Anyway, thanks for your suggestions, and keep them coming.  I agree with you about more returns, I'm going to need them for my future goals.

Andrew
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antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2005, 07:49:13 am »

I just picked out a new drum mic kit, and thought I'd ask your opinion of it.  

Audix DP2 Drum Mic Package
1x Audix D2/D-Vice Bonus Package

This kit doesn't include any overhead mics, so if you could suggest some, that would be helpfull.

Thanks,
Andrew
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Mike Sveda

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2005, 08:05:22 am »

For drum overheads:

Shure KSM137
AKG C535

Definitely try and work with a local Sound Co. to work out a package deal.  Take the MF pricelist and see what they can put together.

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Dan Brown

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2005, 08:58:32 am »

Andrew,
that Audix drum kit will work fine.  If you get enough money buy a D6, it is one of the best kick drum mics.

As far as overheads there are lots of possibilities.  Don't spend the extra money on the ksm137, stick with a ksm109 it will work great for what you are doing.  The ksm109 would probably be what I would suggest for OH's and hi-hat.

Do you have the budget to get a driverack pa or a driverack 260,
this will replace your house eq and crossover.  Also try to fit in two DBX 231 for EQ for 4 monitor mixes.  

If you really want to run your amps through a power conditioner, get a Furman PL-Pro so that you have a 20amp breaker.  The reason for not using one is that it may not be enough power for the amps.  The other option is to put the driverack and monitor amps on a Furman and run the rmx2450's out to outlets.

Are you planning on running the high cabs passive?

The GB8 is great if you want 8 subgroups, but you can save a thousand or so if 4 subgroups are fine.

Karl - My name is under my profile and on my signature which you can't see when your writing a message - Dan Brown
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Jeff Foster

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2005, 01:49:42 pm »

I would mirror what has already been mentioned here and would like to add that a big improvement can be made in the vocal quality by getting something better than plain old SM58s.  

Check out the Beta 87A or C or at least a Beta 58A if you want to stick with Shure.  Alternately Audix's OM series is great, as is Audio-Technica's Artist Elite series.

For drum overheads, a less expensive option would be a couple of Audix ADX-51s.  I have found these to be very versatile mics with awesome gain before feedback.

Also, I haven't priced the snake you mentioned but if at all possible, try to get a Whirlwind brand snake.  In my opinion, they are some of the best out there.  I have used one for years and have loved it.  It is very durable, uses high quality connectors, and the blue cable just looks cool.

Jeff
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Jeff Foster
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Northside Baptist Church
Carrollton Texas
www.nsbcc.org

brian ong

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2005, 03:32:36 pm »


"Check out the Beta 87A or C or at least a Beta 58A if you want to stick with Shure. Alternately Audix's OM series is great, as is Audio-Technica's Artist Elite series."

just bare in mind that the 58beta is supercardioid in its pick up pattern. It might give u some feedback problem if its not position properly.

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antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2005, 05:01:36 pm »

What do you guys think of instead of buying a different snake, just using our current 16 channel ProCo snake, turning it around, and using it for returns?

Andrew
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antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2005, 05:16:33 pm »

OK, guys, here's the latest list, let me know what you think.

1x QSC RMX 850 Power Amp
2x QSC RMX2450 Power Amp
6x DOD VAC265 Stagehand Direct Box with Ground Lift
1x Audix DP2 Drum Mic Package
1x Audix D2/D-Vice Bonus Package
2x Shure KSM109 Cardioid Studio Condenser Mic
1x Shure PGX24/Beta 58 Handheld Wireless System Channel H6
4x Shure BETA 58A Mic
1x TC Electronic M•One XL Effects Processor
1x dbx DriveRack PA Processor
2x dbx 231 Dual 31-Band Graphic EQ
8x Planet Waves Speaker Cable with SpeakOn Plugs 50 Foot
1x Jade Audio 24 Channel 4 XLR Return Snake 100 Foot
35x Mogami Silver Series Microphone Cable 25 Foot (I'm sticking with these for now just cause the only $18 each this doesn't mean I won't pick different ones later)
10x Mogami Silver Series Instrument Cable 25 Foot (I'm sticking with these for now just cause I was too lazy to look for other ones)
4x Mogami Silver Series Mic Cable 50 Foot
1x Furman PL-Plus II Power Conditioner with Volt Meter
1x Furman PL-Pro II Power Conditioner with LED Volt Meter
1x Soundcraft GB4-24 Mixing Console
2x JBL SRX718S 18” Subwoofer
2x JBL SRX722 2-Way Dual 12" Speaker Cabinet
4x JBL JRX112M 12" 2-Way Stage Monitor

Thanks you guys so much for your sugestions.  I appreciate all of them.  Thanks for reminding me that the PG series mikes were Shure's low-end, I didn't even think about it.  I'm going to assume the JBL's are ok since no one has said anything about them.

Thanks again,
Andrew
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antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2005, 05:27:06 pm »

I forgot to tell you guys that our new worship leader for the church can get a lot of stuff wholesale, so that'll save us a ton.

Andrew
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2005, 05:31:45 pm »

What kind of stuff wholesale? Can you give us some brands? Can you give us some dimensions of the youth room? (Or will this be used in many different rooms).

Karl P
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antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2005, 06:26:44 pm »

I'm not sure what brands he can get, and the system will be used in many different sized rooms.

Andrew
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Justin Rygel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2005, 08:46:07 am »

We have the Audix DP2 kit and I really like it.  The mics sound good, are tough, and have very good isolation, buy some extra clips though, they break easily.

I also use an M-One XL for my acoustic guitar rig and it works very well.

We use Audio Technica AT3031s for drum overheads and I would highly reccomend them if you ever want to use them for other things.  Very clean, flat sound, they go much higher and much lower than any other mics we use regularly other than an AT4033 large diaphragm condenser.  We are working on a recording project and the AT3031s have been invaluable for micing acoustic guitars and vocal groups.

I'm looking at getting a Mackie TT24 when we get the money to upgrade (hopefully in the next year or so).  It is available (if you can afford to wait a few months) for about $1000-$1500 more than the GB8 and is a lot more flexible for the price.  I know, reliability is still a concern as new as it is, but I've had very positive experiences with Mackies factory warranty repairs, so I'm not too concerned about that . . . of course, I can just drive up to the factory to drop stuff off, makes it a little easier.  That said, Soundcraft makes good stuff also, I've spent a lot of time on the Spirit Live stuff and the GBs look better . . .

Justin Rygel
www.vivaharambee.com
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2005, 01:33:20 pm »

IMHO you're cramping yourself by getting a DriveRack PA, 24-channel board, and average snake. Unless you have serious weight considerations, you're going to miss the 8 extra channels a 32-channel board would get you. The Driverack and teh snake are just personal opinion... the last place I'd try and save money would be system control and main snaking.
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Adam Kane

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2005, 03:56:51 pm »

Keep in mind that you usually don't get free shipping on things like speakers, large mixers, amps, and racks because of the weight.

I'd check Musician's Friend to see what shipping charges will be.

If you've already done this, disregard this post.

adam
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Adam "Drumrkane"

antiintel

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2005, 04:31:44 pm »

Shipping is a little more than $600.
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Jerry Nuckolls

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2005, 07:00:27 pm »

Be shure to check out local suppliers and companies like full compass (http://www.fullcompass.com) for a list of prices.  Typically, musiciansfriend is good for..musicians, not providing pa gear at good prices.  You will have to call FC for their pricing as it is typically below MAP (manufacturer's minimum advertised price).  Northern Sound does a good job too.

Jerry Nuckolls
Acoustics Engineer
Image Media Solutions
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2005, 07:59:55 pm »

While a bit more limited in brands, northern sound I have found to offer quality equipment at very good prices and service, I would highly recommend them.

Karl P
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Jeff Foster

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2005, 07:02:23 am »

I'd also like to put in a plug for my regular dealer.  Try calling Springtree Media Group at 1-877-746-4873 (1-8-SPRINGTREE)

I have worked with Peter there and he is a great guy.  He'll match prices and will give you the personalized service that you just can't find anywhere else.  The thing I like about them the most is that NOTHING they do is about making as much money as possible.  They want to help each customer find what will work the best for each unique situation.  None of the sales staff is commissioned so no one has any interest in selling the most expensive option - only the best option.

If you call, mention that Jeff told you to call.

Jeff
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Jeff Foster
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Northside Baptist Church
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Jeff Foster

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Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2005, 07:03:26 am »

Edited to remove duplicate post due to computer error
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Jeff Foster
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Northside Baptist Church
Carrollton Texas
www.nsbcc.org

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Your Opinion on this System
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2005, 07:03:26 am »


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