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Author Topic: Statement of Qualification - Example please  (Read 4372 times)

Rain Jaudon

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 12:31:21 am »

Not really - (re: cut major needed component)
I've stuck to my guns in the Sanctuary and in the Conference rooms.  I made an analogy that these systems were like a house of cards.  "Snatch too many things out and ya might as well not even play the game."

With the portable audio system for the choir I took their list of existing gear and told them I could add powered subs, speaker stands, a decent driverack, and a nice combo rack for their existing soundcraft GB2r mixer.

I've spoken to them till Im blue in the face about who handles the warranty and service calls if the TVs are bought at Best Buy.

And in the Community Center they originally wanted three stand alone fixed install audio systems in a room with a 30'+ ceiling of drywall, stone tile floors, and all glass walls for the first 12' AFF.  ie. a Reverb Tank.  They also wanted three of the largest LCD screens available because a room with an incredible amount of natural light would never allow projectors.  That simply was scaled down.  
They had a big wish list and then reality set in and they decided that a $90,000 digital organ was more important than some of the other items on the list.  

At the last meeting I told them I would cut entire rooms out of the bid before I started taking any more equipment out.  Do it right or don't do it at all.
(at least not with my name on it - Those jobs where the client wants incredible results with low funds is always going to blame the install company for any problems down the road.)

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Endorsing Artist for CA Guitars - Lafayette, LA
http://www.CAguitars.com

Multitude Audio
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Audio Visual Installation and Service
Gulfport, Ocean Springs and Pascagula, MS

Brad Weber

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 12:42:27 am »

Rain Jaudon wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 00:07

They decided it was cheaper to buy the TVs at Best Buy and I'd install em.  (get this - Project Manager still doesn't see the need for me to charge more than an hour's labor to install these LCD's - as I'm "just plugging them in".. shesh)

Project Mgr says the Church will handle the PTZ camera purchase in the Sanctuary but I still need to bid for installing it and distributing it thru the entire campus.

The portable system for the Choir got cut drastically when they decided they'd just keep using the mix match of random monitors and mains that were donated over the years.

And the Community Center now only has 1 Audio system and 1 potential LCD TV.

In Feb. 2009 the system was bid at $231,175.55.

As of today I've strangled it down to $194,975.84 lock stock and barrel.

Make sure they understand that you will not be responsible for any Owner Provide equipment and that your warranty not only does not cover that equipment, but also does not cover any problems that may result from it.  People are always surprised when the installation cost goes up when the equipment is Owner Furnished.

Unfortunately, it sounds like your "PM" is the type of person who gives Value Engineering a bad reputation, it is supposed to be a matter of creating greater value and not simply reducing cost.  When something goes wrong with their equipment and Best Buy and the manufacturer won't do anything because it was consumer equipment used in a commercial application, has that really added 'value' to the project?  If there is a failure, will they expect you to deinstall and reinstall a product you did not provide?  When you have to determine if a problem is in your work or their equipment and may end up having to charge them for a service call, is the amount saved really worth it?

As far as what to charge, some people use 10% to 15% of the system cost as a guideline for creating full, biddable documents and providing Contract Administration.  Just the documents would be maybe 50% of that.  Personally, I only use the percentage basis as a sort of 'reality check' and I actually task out the work to be performed.  The problem with percentages is that aspects such as a difficult space or the system quality level or multiple similar systems (such as classroom buildings), etc. can dramatically affect the work effort involved.  And what many people forget is that trying to do more with less budget takes more effort on the design end.  It's a lot easier to design a system that might typically be $50,000 with a $75,000 budget than it is to try to do the same project but with a $25,000 budget.  Sometimes spending less on the system costs more upfront.

This also brings up the issue of what kind of documents they are expecting.  It sounds like they may be expecting something more like Bid Documents like a Consultant would provide rather than Shop Drawings.  The big difference would be that while often less detailed, the Bid Documents would also cover issues such as the requirements for submittals, warranty, installation practices, testing, training, documentation and so on.  Shop Drawings would typically be much more detailed but would not address these issues, which are critical if they think they are going to use them for bidding.  
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video

Duane Massey

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 01:21:31 pm »

Rain, considering how much time you've already invested, I doubt you'll ever get them to pay you what you have "earned". I would suggest picking a number that you would feel satisfied with if the deal goes south and get your walking shoes on.

If they're going with consumer TV's, it is actually better for you if they buy them direct, as this gets you out of the warranty issues. Make sure you have in writing that any labor on your part other than the install will be billable. Also, any extra labor because of DOA should also be billable.

Considering where you are, I'd stand your ground right now about the design fee. If they decide to look elsewhere you may suddenly find yourself at the top of the list again when they realize how much someone else may charge.

Good luck!
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Duane Massey
Houston, Texas, USA

Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 03:08:18 am »

Rain,

I'll approach this from an end user standpoint.

Some background first:

While anyone who does business with the organizations I consult with or otherwise represent knows that we are value conscious, we also believe that we are very fair.

In that vain I believe that not only have you been taken advantage of so far but that a conversation is in order immediately to discuss the fact that all the work to date has been done under a verbal understanding of you being awarded the final project. While that may have been acceptable due to the past working relationships you have had, the addition of a new set of parameters is demanding that you change this arrangement and not only charge for your new work, but also work done to date.

Based on the vague information you have given so far I would think that somewhere between 30 and 50 thousand dollars for the whole process would be a fair price depending on how many meetings and how much documentation has been provided. This would not include any install or "oversight" of the install if done by another person, but would include the rest of the documentation being discussed (that which is in your court that is, the acoustician needs to supply a healthy amount of the information they seem to be requesting should be coming from his camp.

I would engage in this conversation fully realizing that you will possibly not get paid, potentially loose this client, and either way will likely have to chalk it up as one very costly learning process.

Its great to know you are and were so keen to help out what is surely a good organization, unfortunately at the end of the day it is business and thus you need to approach it as such.

Karl P
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Michael Hoddy

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2009, 12:59:28 am »

Someone somewhere, probably at the diocese level, has decided in some arbitrary way that the system costs too much. Not based on any information that's related to the scope of the project, but based how they feel about AV costing that much in general. Your "PM" likely has no experience in the pro AV field and/or of this scope, is in over his head, and will therefore do the bidding of those who are retaining him, whose motivation is already clear.

I just lost a job on a new build with a longtime client for, among other things, some very similar circumstances.

Everything the diocese or whoever is pulling these strings is now doing is an attempt to prove themselves right about the system being "too expensive." You will not win at this game by cutting your scope below what's reasonable because you're only proving the diocese's point. And any attempts to do so without first billing for your time heretofore will only dig you in deeper. As mentioned earlier, either get paid for the work done up to now and only then keep jumping through their hoops, or walk and see if they follow you. If it were me, I would have walked after the first round of revisions because it's clear that they cannot reasonably balance their budget with their priorities. Putting the system out to bid based on your spec, if I'm understanding that right, is just plain dirty.

I'd say that it's possible that even if you get the job, it may not be worth the hassle, and if you're ever in a position where you have to split hairs over things like the servicing of Owner-Provided equipment or the functionality of a system whose scope has been cut to the bare bones, your relationship with the church and your reputation only stands to suffer, regardless of how "right" you are.
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Michael Hoddy

Adam Whetham

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2009, 12:40:52 pm »

Charlie Zureki wrote on Sun, 01 March 2009 23:17


See what I mean?   Next they'll be expecting your labor and the equipment for free.  

Do yourself a favor.... send them a bill and walk away. In this situation you WILL LOSE.  If they actually proceed with this project and something is not "right" ... you will be the fall guy. There's too many unknowns in this scenario.

one last thought.... have you "cut" anything that you thought they absolutely needed?  If so.... you have the final answer to this project's outcome.... it will be crap-tastic.

Hold your head high, and say "good bye!"

Hammer


+1 with what Hammer said... Get out while you can... Its only going to get worse if you've cut the install by over $100,000 they'll still expect the original ability's... Been there done that.
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Jason Lavoie

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2009, 12:02:52 pm »

Adam Whetham wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 12:40


+1 with what Hammer said... Get out while you can... Its only going to get worse if you've cut the install by over $100,000 they'll still expect the original ability's... Been there done that.


Agreed..

and on top of that, a system that starts at $250k and gets trimmed down to $100k is never as good as a system that originally started with a $100k budget. don't ask me why, but our brains get stuck in the higher bracket and trying to provide certain things at the expense of others. things that wouldn't even be considered in a system built around a $100k budget.

if they still want to keep working, get paid for what you've done and sit down with them to hash out a new budget and a new list of expectations and start over.

Jason
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kevinnemrava

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Re: Statement of Qualification - Example please
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2009, 04:48:57 pm »

2 thoughts on the subject.

1) If you can't get paid for what you have done already, what makes you think you will get fair pay for future work with them?

2) Don't expect you can "make up" for the lost time *designing* a $300,000 system, by *selling* $100,000 system.
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