ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?  (Read 5071 times)

Mark Cartwright

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« on: March 21, 2005, 02:08:06 PM »

I am needing to better mic our upright piano in our worship center at church.  It isn't a large auditorium or anything (350 seat).  Currently I have an SM58 hanging behind it (there is a half-wall that surrounds the back and two sides of the piano) but it doesn't amplify the sound as clearly and strongly as I'd like.  What mic do you suggest (type, particular model, etc.) that won't break my budget??  Also, mic placement plays a big roll, I know, so give me your input on that as well.

Thanks guys!

Mark
Sound & Multimedia Director
Calvary Baptist Church
Logged
Mark Cartwright
Sound & Multimedia Director
Calvary Baptist Church
Batesville, Arkansas

Don Lanier

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
    • http://www.pearlproaudio.com
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2005, 06:16:27 PM »

Hello,
Audix makes a condenser mic called the ADX-51 that shouldnt break the bank and does a great job on Piano, you really need 2 mics to get the proper coverage and you should get the correct Mic mount to place the 2 mics with a slight overlap of the soundbridge in the piano, since its a condenser its level will be considerably more than the SM-58 so turn down your gain a bit before sound check, also youll need Phantom Power from the mixer to power the condenser elements. Peavey also makes a great mic for this application in the PVM 480, This is also a condenser and is another great sounding mic for a budget minded facility.
Youll need 2 mics to do the job right and Phantom power for either. The single 58 is NOT covering the piano and your really hearing only the area that the mic is nearest. Now If budget is no issue the Shure SM 81 is the choice mic but at 300.00 or more ea I dont think thats what your looking for. DPA microphones makes the mackdaddy of all Piano mics but the cost is nearly 800.00 and I think that only the larger churches can afford the DPA System. It is a great system using 2 small mics on goosenecks that can be mounted inside the piano and provide seamless and FLAT sound reproduction. GOOD LUCK
Logged
Don Lanier
Pearl Productions
http://www.pearlproaudio.com

Mark Cartwright

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2005, 07:19:42 PM »

Okay, thanks for your input.  That's helpful.  What about large diaphram condenser mics like often used in recording or I've seen used for a temporary setup for mic'ing a choir at a college auditorium.  They often have a wide pickup pattern and are designed to be clear.  Would they work or not be adequate for this purpose?  I'm pretty much at a loss on this piano mic'ing subject, so all input from as many sources/people as possible is appreciated.
Logged
Mark Cartwright
Sound & Multimedia Director
Calvary Baptist Church
Batesville, Arkansas

Dave Hudzik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
    • http://www.livewiresi.com
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2005, 09:48:13 PM »

I would recomend a Large Diaphram condenser when ever you can on Piano, or a stereo micing setup.

But for I upright with a "sheild" around it I would stay with the Large Diaphram Condenser.  Something like a AT 4040 or 4060 would be a good choice.  I don't know how much $$ you have to spend, but really any decent condenser will give you more of the sound you are probabaly looking for than a 58.

What ever you buy, don't buy a "Piano Microphone" they make these things that are like large acoustic guitar picks ups and they are AWFUL, it's about just as good as using a PZM.
Logged

Tom Young

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2005, 06:26:31 AM »

A few comments.

First, take a look at the article I wrote for Church Production magazine on piano mic'ing for sound reinforcement.

http://www.churchproduction.com/article.php?issue_path=issue _17_09-01&article_num=259

I would not bother with large diaphragm mic's unless you have a very well-designed FOH ldspkr system, a space with very good acoustics and a well-behaved worship band.  In most cases, we need to get the mic's in close and with lid on short stick.  Also, a good large diaphragm mic costs 2x (or more) than a good "small" cardioid condenser does. Because you need 2 mic's (regardless of size of diaphragm) and because you may also need a pickup (for feedback free monitors, etc)..... I estimate that 90% of mic'd pianos use standard size mic's.

Incidentally, the Superlux cardioid or hyper-cardioid condenser microphone represents a very good value for this application as well as others such as choir pick up.

http://www.superlux.us/smalldiaphragm.html

You will immediately have much better sound quality than you do with a single SM58 if you go this route.
Logged
Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
Email: dbspl@earthlink.net
www.dbspl.com

Dan Brown

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
    • http://www.myspace.com/thesuperspike
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2005, 09:15:34 AM »

Mark,
Even though Tom says he likes the the Barcus Berry the most in the article(pickups?).  I would say that in my opinion, I have had better sounds come out of the C-duccer.
www.c-ducer.com
Again this is from my experience.  While I prefer micing a piano, 1 mic on the high and 1 mic on the low.(AKG c451b or AKG c414)  I believe in your situation it would be best to use a pickup, try out the C-ducer and the barcus berry.  Pick the one you like best.
Logged
Dan Brown
REACH Communications

Dave Hudzik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
    • http://www.livewiresi.com
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2005, 12:53:37 PM »

Tom is right Large Dia. Cond. Can cause feedback in a bad PA system, but when used correctly and not over the top, they are the best choice.  If you need a smaller Cardiod pair and are on a budget I would recomend the Rode NT-5's over the Superlux, a little more expensive but very good.

Piano pickups are not very good no matter which brand you use, you will never get the same results as with mics and you can't tweak it either to get sound from different locations of the piano
Logged

Dan Brown

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
    • http://www.myspace.com/thesuperspike
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2005, 01:50:29 PM »

Dave,
Piano pickups are not the same as mics, but in a live situation with an upright piano, pickups are probably best.  Pretty much any condensor mic/pickup can beat out the sm58 mic he is currently using.  A pair of large diaphram mics would be great, but not every church has the money for a GOOD pair or even one.  I have gotten an acceptable sound with the C-ducer, but not the Barcus-Berry.  I use many of these on a semi-regular basis; In many different venues, mostly churches, with a national artist.  I always bring a pair of AKG c451b's with me but because of the different venues,  I will somtimes use 2 mics and others 1 mic and 1 pickup.  Find a retailer/installer who can give you a demo of the different mics/pickups mentioned here.  This way you can gain a relationship and decide while listening what fits YOU best.
Logged
Dan Brown
REACH Communications

Dave Hudzik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
    • http://www.livewiresi.com
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2005, 06:04:53 PM »

thesuperspike,
I know they aren't the same as mics and yes they work, but if can buy the BB for $215 why not buy a pair of AT 2020's L.D.C. for 200.00 for 2.

Logged

Tom Young

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2005, 06:16:21 PM »

Let's not lose sight of why pickups are recommended, when we do recommend them.

In some not uncommon situations where there are significant demands and less-than-ideal conditions, a pickup provides a clear piano signal that is impervious to feedback. Simple.

Otherwise, there is no question that a pair of good cardioid condensers is the way to go.
Logged
Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
Email: dbspl@earthlink.net
www.dbspl.com

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Mic'ing a Piano....your suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2005, 06:16:21 PM »


Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.029 seconds with 23 queries.