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[Evan Kirkendall]

Justin,
The driver shouldn't change the frequency response significantly enough to matter. The cabinet design plays the biggest factor in response...




Evan

[Justin Stern]

Then explain the numbers I posted.  Those aren't just made up.

[Jeff Permanian]

Justin Stern wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 23:30

The charts I was referring to earlier when compared a Growler and the LS608 was with the RCF driver.

Where is this chart of the Growler and LS608? One thing your forgetting is that there is a huge difference between calculated output and measured. A driver with 4.5mm of xmax will run out of travel (the ability to get louder) way before a driver with 19.5mm of xmax.

[Phil Lewandowski]

Justin Stern wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 00:30

I wonder why they switched from the RCF.   The charts I was referring to earlier when compared a Growler and the LS608 was with the RCF driver. Apparently, it was a better driver as it did not fall off so steep from 50hertz. The output at 45 hz is 99 db 1w/1m and it is 102db at 50 hz. It does drop to 91 db at 40 hz. The Growler is 94 db at 40 hz. BUT, by the time you get to 43ish hz, the growler cannot keep up. 92@40 102@50 103@60,70,80,90 102@100,110.120 This is close and will not reveal a peak or valley in the response. The Growler is.... 94@40 99@50 100@60,70,80 99.5@90 99@100 Does anyone have a chart for the LS608 with the B&C driver?? I want to see the difference!!! Thanks Justin Stern

I am as curious as Jeff P. about the chart for the LS608?  Where did you find it? I really wish Yorkville would publish charts for their stuff!


Evan, when you Smaarted your LS608 did you confirm the 103dB sensitivity?


I have a feeling that the LS608 might be able to get slightly louder than a single Growler, but that the Growler will go lower as Evan confirmed.  I have a very good feeling that the Growler is a bit smoother and better sounding than the LS608.  I say this because I have heard the LS808 and LS1208 and several people have confirmed that the LS608 sounds similar to them.  They all have a little bit that needs to be tamed in the 100-130hz range.  Nothing big though.

As Evan said the -3dB point is 50hz for the LS608 and 43hz for the Growler.  So you have to decide if you want a little extra efficiency above 50hz or a bit of extra extension and soother sound.

I owned some EAW LA400's that seem very similar (In extension and efficiency in the 60-100hz range) to the LS608 as the LA400 had a -3dB point around 49-50hz and that extra extension that the Growler has is actually very noticeable, even when not doing side-by-side comparisons.


Hope this helps some!
Phil

[Justin Stern]

They are both seperate charts.

The JTR is on the site
and the Yorkville I got from another user who will not share them as he has a in with someone who works for Yorkville.

The extension is not that much different.  At 40, yes, at 44 and on, there is really no contest.


Justin

[Ivan Beaver]

To add a couple of points here.

Unless the subs were measured in the same exact way, using the same setup, the results may not (or may) be comparible.

Also when you are talking about only a dB or 2 between boxes there is something else to consider.

There is a little thing called tolerance between "accepted" loudspeakers that meet spec.

Even though the cabinets themselves may be "exact" due to CNC tolerances, the drivers themselves will vary in actual performance.   It is not uncommon to measure a particular run of loudspeakers, that use the same batch of drivers and have a variance of several db across the run.

So a particular published spec may be at the high range of sensitivity-or the low end or just a random cabinet pulled out to measure.

So trying to get particular, especially when there is only a db (or a couple) difference in the spec sheets is pretty worthless.  

At that point you really need to put them side by side to get an idea of what they "sound" like, before making a purchase decision.  

Of course that is not always easy or practical.

[Jeff Permanian]

who uses their subwoofers with 1 watt?  That RCF driver is only rate at 350 watts with 4.5mm travel Let put them side by side and see what happens in the real world.

[Phil Lewandowski]

Justin Stern wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 17:41

They are both seperate charts. The JTR is on the site and the Yorkville I got from another user who will not share them as he has a in with someone who works for Yorkville. The extension is not that much different.  At 40, yes, at 44 and on, there is really no contest. Justin

Thanks Justin, I think I have seen those graphs also here somewhere a bit ago...

I was actually surprised at how much of a difference I noticed between my Growler (-3dB at 43hz, -10dB at 35hz) and my LA400 (-3dB at 49hz, -10dB at 40hz).  It seemed to only be a difference of 6hz or so in extension but was very noticeable.   These measurements, of course, are only comparable with each other.

FWIW, I was really impressed by how much my outdoors measurements of a Growler matched up with Jeff's published graph.  I was really impressed by the repeatability of it.  When it gets to spring here in Cleveland, OH I will take my second Growler out just to see how much the 2 Growlers differ from each other, out of curiosity.


I agree with Ivan, there will always be some differing in loudspeakers of the same make and model, and the best thing to do is just listen to them!

Take Care!
Phil

[Phil Lewandowski]

Jeff Permanian wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 17:48

Let put them side by side and see what happens in the real world.

That's what I'm talking about!  

[Evan Kirkendall]

Jeff Permanian wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 17:48

who uses their subwoofers with 1 watt?  That RCF driver is only rate at 350 watts with 4.5mm travel Let put them side by side and see what happens in the real world.

Jeff,
The LS608's use a B&C 18" driver. I believe it's a slightly modified version of the 18PZB46. I forget exactly what Yorkville told me. I'd have to call them again to verify.

I used to have real measurements for them, but the computer they were saved to is no longer in existence, and I no longer own the subs.

However, I've used both and will say this: Above 50hz, the Growler stands no chance with the LS608. The LS608's hands down have more output, and more "punch." The Growler takes the cake from 45-50hz. The growlers are also a little smoother sounding, and don't have as of an annoying hump at 95hz as the LS608's. If I had to pick a pair, I'd take the LS608's. The extra output makes the difference to me, and I can EQ out the little hump.


Evan