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[Bob Henley]

I'm the sound guy at our theater and am not generally knowledgeable in the video area. Unfortunately, the mess of our video system got dumped in my lap.

What we have was installed in 2000 with only marginal competence -- we went 8 years with a very audible ground loop in the video's audio. It's time for all that to go. We've decided to go all Cat5 with the new cabling. That's not the problem for me.

Where I'm lost is with the switcher. Here are the I/O requirements:


We don't need anything fancy- the switches will never take place when an audience can see them. The issue we're having is the need to switch both standard and high definition sources. What should I be looking at in terms of the switcher? My goal is to keep everything as simple as possible.

It would not be advisable to hire someone. The school would insist on using their choice of consultant, which has lead to disastrous results in the past (including the problem we currently face).

[John Birchman, CTS]

The biggest problem in finding a cost friendly solution is that you have 4 different signal types, that are not easily compatible with each other.

You also need to figure out if you truly need a 9x9 matrix switch, as you have described, or if anything can be grouped to make things a little easier.

You also should check to see if devices have other outputs/inputs that may help you to consolidate (like the DVD you have listed as Component, it may be easier/cheaper to use the S-Video out if the DVD player has it, or buy a new cheap DVD player with S-Video than buy a converter).

Also, what devices are in the same room, and which are not?  This may help in consolidating some things.

Do you need to switch audio with all of these sources?

If you can provide some additional information, I am sure myself and/or others can help point you in the right direction.

I would also take a look at the Extron site (http://www.extron.com) and look around a bit to familiarize yourself with the products in general.

John

[Brad Weber]

Deja vu, I think I've seen this somewhere else before!

The technology is moving towards solutions for this type of situation but you're a little ahead of the curve as far as the quantity of I/O.  What I have done for similar situations in the past is to use monitors that all accept an RGBHV/VGA input, scale all of the inputs to RGBHV/VGA at a resolution that all the monitor will accept and use an RGBHV router.  You could still use CAT5 to connect to remote devices, just on either side of the routing and scaling.

If you can live with it, another option would be to use CAT5 and a CAT5 router, but to limit the destinations to receiving only compatible inputs.  For destinations like the projector, you could use a receiver that supported multiple video formats, for example S-Video and VGA, although you would then have to switch projector inputs.

[Bob Henley]

John Birchman, CTS wrote on Mon, 12 January 2009 22:13

You also need to figure out if you truly need a 9x9 matrix switch, as you have described, or if anything can be grouped to make things a little easier.

We would like to have the matrix. We already have a matrix switcher, but it's probably probably more than 8 years old now and dosen't work well. The company that made it no loger supports it.

Quote:

You also should check to see if devices have other outputs/inputs that may help you to consolidate (like the DVD you have listed as Component, it may be easier/cheaper to use the S-Video out if the DVD player has it, or buy a new cheap DVD player with S-Video than buy a converter). Also, what devices are in the same room, and which are not?  This may help in consolidating some things.

That makes sense, we could consiladate a lot, probably just to composite and VGA. Here's the new list:

Quote:

Do you need to switch audio with all of these sources?

No. All the audio will be routed to a seperate mixer and then sent to the house PA.

Quote:

If you can provide some additional information, I am sure myself and/or others can help point you in the right direction.

Thank you!


I've browsed the Extron site, and I have some questions about the Twisted Pair Switchers, specifically, the MTPX 16x16.

If we used one, would it allow composite sources to switch only to composite outputs, and to switch VGA sources only to VGA outputs, and allow us to change the combination of VGA and compoiste sources later?

That way, we could use Cat 5 converters on all our equipment and when the money became aviable, we could upgrade all our displays and use upconverters on the sources and then switch only in high definition.

Now the dreaded question: how much might such a switcher cost?

[Brad Weber]

Bob  Healey wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 09:44

I've browsed the Extron site, and I have some questions about the Twisted Pair Switchers, specifically, the MTPX 16x16. If we used one, would it allow composite sources to switch only to composite outputs, and to switch VGA sources only to VGA outputs, and allow us to change the combination of VGA and compoiste sources later? That way, we could use Cat 5 converters on all our equipment and when the money became aviable, we could upgrade all our displays and use upconverters on the sources and then switch only in high definition.

Remember that the CAT5 is simply cabling, it is the signal being carried that differs and that is dependent upon the transmitters and receivers used.  What you might consider doing is using RGBHV/VGA transmitters and receivers for everything but handling other signals by composite video signals using only the "R" connections on the transmitters and receivers and S-Video signals the "G" and "B" connections.  That way you have all the transmitters and receivers in place for higher resolution.

Bob  Healey wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 09:44

Now the dreaded question: how much might such a switcher cost?

You'd have to talk to an Extron dealer to get pricing but list price on the MTPX 1616 is about $14,000, then add to that all the CAT5 transmitters and receivers.  Magenta Research, AMX and  Crestron also offer 16x16 or larger CAT5 media matrix switchers.

[John Birchman, CTS]

Yes, as I understand it, the MTPX 16x16 with the MTP transmitters and receivers, will switch multiple signal types, but only to a matching transmitter pair (composite to composite, s-video to s-video, vga to vga).  The Universal Receivers do have composite, s-video, and vga, but will only display the signal type that they are sent, and will not convert signals to the other types.  For example, if you send a Universal Receiver a s-video signal, it will only output s-video.  The Universal Receivers are nice, in that they help with scaling up to vga in the future, but this also comes at a cost more than a normal receiver.

No matter what company you go with, this could be a costly proposition.  Do you have a budget in mind for what you are trying to accomplish?

I know that usually performing arts centers often do not have that much money for improvements.

John

[Don Boone]

If you use the Extron MTPX 16x16 you should use the plus version.
It allows different skew and level adjustments based on which sources are routed to different displays and recalls these settings when the switch is made.

Don

[Bob Henley]

John Birchman, CTS wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 14:00

No matter what company you go with, this could be a costly proposition.  Do you have a budget in mind for what you are trying to accomplish? I know that usually performing arts centers often do not have that much money for improvements. John

Based on the list price above, the Extron twisted pair would be out of the picture. We're in a good situation financially, but we really can't justify spending that much on a video switcher that is not a particularly "mission-critical" piece of gear. We have more pressing issues, and it would be hard to go in front of the school board (even though we make the money, it still goes through the school purchasing process) and ask for the money while there are holes in our curtains and the sound shell is about to fall apart.

We would probably be looking in the 5k range for the entire upgrade.

How about a composite-video only 12x12 matrix switcher? Then we could route the two VGA sources into a mechanical two to one switch. The problem with that solution is that we lose the upgradibility.

[John Birchman, CTS]

Bob:

That probably makes the most sense in your current situation.

Extron does not have anything in a 12x12 composite, here is what is available:

The MAV 88 V is a 8x8 and lists for $1390 (2007 price)
The MAV Plus 1616 V is a 16x16 and lists for $2790 (2007 price)

You may be able to find something a bit cheaper, but in my opinion the Extron line has a history of being reliable, and I doubt that they will be going out of business anytime soon.

John

[Brian K Tennyson, CTS-D]

Precis LT from AutoPatch /AMX retails at $2925. 8x8 VGA 300MHZ +/- 3db.

Or you could get a Precis 12x8 RGBHV for list of $5700, which I bet you could get a street price for under $5k

If you must have 12x12 the Optima SD starts at list of $9500

Both units have front panel controls. RS-232 and optional TCP/IP control.

PM me for a dealer recommendation in St. Louis.