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Author Topic: "Green" Certification  (Read 7339 times)

Eric Madson

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 09:25:09 AM »

"Green" can refer to products not containing harmful substances such as lead, arsenic or mercury. It can also refer to their ability to be recycled. (See the new Apple "Mac", IBM Notebook Line product line). I think with all the money pouring into Fed Jobs in the near future( According to Obamas speech this week) many of the jobs are going to be contingent on "Green" products and "Green" systems.

It's OK with me if you want to keep your head buried in the sand. Gives my company a better competitive edge for the future.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 10:04:35 AM »

Green is the new  $$$$ (Green),

JR
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 10:42:40 AM »

Eric Madson wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 08:25

"Green" can refer to products not containing harmful substances such as lead, arsenic or mercury. It can also refer to their ability to be recycled. (See the new Apple "Mac", IBM Notebook Line product line). I think with all the money pouring into Fed Jobs in the near future( According to Obamas speech this week) many of the jobs are going to be contingent on "Green" products and "Green" systems.

It's OK with me if you want to keep your head buried in the sand. Gives my company a better competitive edge for the future.



  Hello Eric,
 
The manufacturing processes of many of the components in the electronics we use would exclude them from the Green category.

The Assembly process would currently net the same results.

The greening of the Industry would have to start at the Raw Material Supplier and moving through the Component Manufacturers and on to the Assembly process.

Skipping even one of these "steps" excludes this Industry from the "Green" Goal, of certification.

Recycling of current Electronic components is a hazardous waste nightmare by the nature of the materials used and the difficulty of separating the materials.

Unless the science, technology and economics of these processes change drastically, the "Green" pyramid cannot be built for this Industry.

As another poster suggested, it might be possible to "Green" your Shop through recycling, insulating the building, high efficiency, low power usage lighting, alternative/auxiliary operating power sources, new fleet vehicle technology, etc...

But, remember this comes at a great initial cost. And who or what will certify you as "Green"?

Good Luck,
Hammer

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Paul Drenth

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2009, 03:21:04 PM »

I'm not denying the market potential for "Green" products, or the profit that can be made there. I'm merely stating I don't think there is as much room for improving the environmental impact of the equipment we spec/use/install. RoHS is eliminating lead from these products, but that is relatively easy compared to the retooling and engineering process that would have to be adopted to make our products "Green".

One example of where "Green" doesn't work is on Diesel engines. A few years ago, it was decided that starting with the model year'09 all commercial diesel truck engines would need "scrubbers" on the exhaust. The problem is that these "scrubbers" are only mildly effective in reducing pollutants, but reduce engine efficiency by as much as 10%. This reduced efficiency with the scrubbers actually pollutes the air MORE than the old engines did without. Not to mention the added cost of nearly $10,000 per truck! Remind you of the smog systems on cars in the 70's and 80's? GM's 454 engine produced less than 200 hp for years. (and got 11 mpg hwy!) Talk about inefficiency!

At the end of the day, Capitalism has a way of deciding what products and ideas succeed anyways. I think that it would be a more profitable expenditure of our collective resources to show that the products we use are already efficient and void of hazardous materials. This is, after all about marketing as much as anything, right? I mean, if there were some "Green" products you could use, would you still use them if they ceased to be competitive or if they compromised your systems?

If my client is happy with their system and it generates more revenue for him and myself, then I'm happy. The Pro Audio community is under paid and over worked as it is. -don't mention under appreciated... Competitive edge is worth a lot these days!

This is an interesting train of thought and I'm glad you brought it up. Please don't misunderstand me or take anything I say personal. It's not like I'm questioning you, your product or your motives. I'm just interested in discussing the "Green" thing as it applies to our industry.



enough for now...

Paul

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Charlie Zureki

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 04:04:40 PM »

Paul Drenth wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 14:21



The Pro Audio community is under paid and over worked as it is. -don't mention under appreciated... Competitive edge is worth a lot these days!

This is an interesting train of thought and I'm glad you brought it up. Please don't misunderstand me or take anything I say personal. It's not like I'm questioning you, your product or your motives. I'm just interested in discussing the "Green" thing as it applies to our industry.

Paul




+1

 I suppose that the Greening of the Industry has to start somewhere. Grass-roots promotion has pushed for innovation in many Industries.
 Although I think the cost of new development may be the largest hinderance to change.

Cheers,
Hammer
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Caleb Dick

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2009, 08:23:37 PM »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 07:04

Green is the new  $$$$ (Green),

JR



+1
We're Green Certified for this reason.

Caleb
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Caleb Dick
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2009, 11:29:46 PM »

Caleb Dick wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 19:23

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 07:04

Green is the new  $$$$ (Green),

JR


+1
We're Green Certified for this reason.

Caleb


   Hello,

 Please ... When you say "We're Green Certified", who's We? The Company you work for?  What kind of Company?  How do you qualify? Who qualifies you?

 Very interesting.... please explain....

Thank You,
Hammer
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Brad Weber

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 12:03:42 PM »

Charlie Zureki wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 23:29

Caleb Dick wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 19:23

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 07:04

Green is the new  $$$$ (Green),

JR


+1
We're Green Certified for this reason.

Caleb


   Hello,

 Please ... When you say "We're Green Certified", who's We? The Company you work for?  What kind of Company?  How do you qualify? Who qualifies you?

 Very interesting.... please explain....

Thank You,
Hammer


There are a number of groups that offer their own certifications, some for products and others for specific industries.  Some of these are groups legitimately trying to push environmental responsibility, others are simply selling a certification you can use to promote your company or products.  And I think that is the problem, other than for some specific applications there is no real definition of green' or what one must do to be 'green' and there is certainly no control or limitations on what one can promote as representing 'green' practices.

For example, I work from home, so no additional construction materials required or green space disrupted for the office space.  I already heat and cool the space (with high efficiency devices), so no additional electricity or gas used.  Most of my lighting comes from a window, so there's daylight harvesting.  I dramatically reduced the amount I drive for work, I commuted 300 miles a week for my last job.  I've been involved in several projects that achieved different levels of LEED certification.  I even use recycled paper products.  Does all that make me 'green'?  I guess I could advertise it that way, maybe even start my own 'green' certification group that fits what I do.

However, the reality is that I did actually did all those things primarily for other reasons.  Especially in today's economic climate, doing something simply to be 'green' often makes little business sense.  However, there can be other benefits including perceived value by your clients, thus the promotion of being 'green' as a way to increase that perceived value and benefit, whether or not it is really there.  I don't mean to come across as anti-green, I'm not at all, it's just that being 'green' seems to have often become as much a marketing and promotional tool as it is it representing any real benefit to the environment and I wish it always really meant something more than simply using the latest buzzword.
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Caleb Dick

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2009, 04:24:42 PM »

Charlie Zureki wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 20:29

Caleb Dick wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 19:23

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 07:04

Green is the new  $$$$ (Green),

JR


+1
We're Green Certified for this reason.

Caleb


   Hello,

 Please ... When you say "We're Green Certified", who's We? The Company you work for?  What kind of Company?  How do you qualify? Who qualifies you?

 Very interesting.... please explain....

Thank You,
Hammer


Yes, we is the company I work for.  We are an Integration company, with commercial and residential divisions.  We are Green Builder certified, as a lot of our work is with builders.  It's real, not just a logo paid for for marketing purposes.  So yes we are 'Green' because of builders and LEED, but can't overlook the extra green coming in because of it.  Not much application on the Pro side, other than being more aware of additional ways to keep energy usage down.  

For more business specific questions, drop me a PM.

Caleb
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Caleb Dick
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Brad Weber

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Re: "Green" Certification
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2009, 05:15:11 PM »

Caleb Dick wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 16:24

Yes, we is the company I work for.  We are an Integration company, with commercial and residential divisions.  We are Green Builder certified, as a lot of our work is with builders.  It's real, not just a logo paid for for marketing purposes.  So yes we are 'Green' because of builders and LEED, but can't overlook the extra green coming in because of it.  Not much application on the Pro side, other than being more aware of additional ways to keep energy usage down.

I'd like to know more about it, particularly what group it is that offers the certification.  Other than LEED AP staff members, I have yet to see any 'green' related certifications that apply to AV and I know a number of people who might be interested if you do know of one.

No need to get into specific business practices but just on a general basis, what do you have to do to earn the certification?  Does it involve specific criteria or is it more applying general concepts?  Is there an educational and/or training component?  Does anyone monitor or audit the certified firms to make sure they aren't just using the certification as a marketing tool?
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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