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Author Topic: lab subs for dj rentals...  (Read 7336 times)

Danijel Horvat

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lab subs for dj rentals...
« on: December 23, 2008, 04:50:24 pm »

I have in plan buy new P.A. for my small rental co. My customers is dj's and places for PA is local clubs and in rare cases outdoors. Size is from 100 to 2000 people. Music is trance, techno, house.
I need subs with powerful/loud bass which is no go to low (hp filter on 35Hz) but sound need to have strong chest punch effect and some kick. People must FEEL the music on theirs body. I need big headroom with reserve power. Amps will have 2x rms power than speakers (i-tech or lab gruppen) and never will go to clip. Subs need to have wheel for easy transporting.
EAW LA400 is one good subs but price is to much for me.

Is it 4-8 lab subs good choice for this application?
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 05:19:58 pm »

a 2000 person system is going to be about 10x's bigger than a system for 100 people...
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Josh Billings

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2008, 08:54:38 am »

It'll cost you more to build the LABs than USED LA400s would cost. I recommend the LA400s for this...although they only really go to 45 hz or so. You might also want to look at the Yorkville LS1208

-Josh Billings
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jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2008, 02:59:17 pm »

The #1 DJ in the world only accepts L'Acoustics
SB218 subwoofers.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2008, 03:18:22 pm »

jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) wrote on Thu, 25 December 2008 14:59

The #1 DJ in the world only accepts L'Acoustics
SB218 subwoofers.

And the rest of them?  Can't afford to be as picky.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Tim McCulloch

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2008, 05:43:59 pm »

If he's not on Mr. Kaiser's rig, it doesn't matter, does it?

The odd thing is there are better (louder, lower, etc) subs than the l'Acoustic 218.  My bet is the combination of top boxes and subs pleases him rather than being enamored with the subs by themselves.

Tim Mc
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2008, 07:07:37 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Thu, 25 December 2008 17:43

If he's not on Mr. Kaiser's rig, it doesn't matter, does it?

The odd thing is there are better (louder, lower, etc) subs than the l'Acoustic 218.  My bet is the combination of top boxes and subs pleases him rather than being enamored with the subs by themselves.

Tim Mc

Yeah it gives him a predictable result and he is not willing to risk his reputation on something different-even if it might be better.

I can't say I blame him.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 01:52:52 am »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Thu, 25 December 2008 22:43

If he's not on Mr. Kaiser's rig, it doesn't matter, does it?

The odd thing is there are better (louder, lower, etc) subs than the l'Acoustic 218.  My bet is the combination of top boxes and subs pleases him rather than being enamored with the subs by themselves.

Tim Mc


Just offering my advice as I produce shows for this type of music specifically.

not that everyone uses them.. but my .02 Smile
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Josh Billings

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 05:58:53 am »

True, but if he doesn't have to deal with riders i'm sure he can find "just as good" for less money

-Josh Billings
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jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 10:09:56 am »

Yorkville 1208,UCS, maybee the 1108?
EV QRX218S
EAW SB528z, SB1000z, DCS2 (4)
LABs (6+)
Martin-Audio 218 or WSX
Alpha S2

I'm sure there are others I just cant think of them right now. There are many different reasons on why I choose a specific sub in a job/show.

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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 11:49:00 am »

All of you are forgetting one thing.

He is from Croatia. There are no used EAW, Yorkville, Nexo .... you name it top brand products to buy there. And if he transport them from USA it will cost an arm and a leg to get it there.

Daniel PM me your email address. (This is so we can talk on our language, as you can see his English is not very good)

Danijel Horvat

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 01:17:17 pm »

Marjan Milosevic(MarjanM) wrote on Sun, 28 December 2008 17:49

All of you are forgetting one thing.

He is from Croatia. There are no used EAW, Yorkville, Nexo .... you name it top brand products to buy there. And if he transport them from USA it will cost an arm and a leg to get it there.

Daniel PM me your email address. (This is so we can talk on our language, as you can see his English is not very good)

I can buy this speakers here, but for +50% in price Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad And yea, here no used equipment.
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Josh Billings

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2008, 07:27:05 pm »

Hmmm...well if you get 8 LABs i'm sure you can cover quite a few people. Not sure if you can get 2,000 outdoors with the kind of volume you're looking for, but probably darn close.

Make sure you keep at least a block of 4 together. 4 per side is probably what you would end up with. I do house music and we use four for crowds ranging from 300-600 people. We have plenty of headroom through and we aren't slamming them too hard. These are also indoors, not outdoors.

It's a project that involves a lot of work, but there is a great reward. However when it comes time to sell, you will lose quite a bit of money as people do not know anything about these and a speaker with a brand on it will fetch more money.

-Josh Billings
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John Halliburton

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2008, 09:21:02 pm »

Josh Billings wrote on Sun, 28 December 2008 18:27

Hmmm...well if you get 8 LABs i'm sure you can cover quite a few people. Not sure if you can get 2,000 outdoors with the kind of volume you're looking for, but probably darn close.

Make sure you keep at least a block of 4 together. 4 per side is probably what you would end up with. I do house music and we use four for crowds ranging from 300-600 people. We have plenty of headroom through and we aren't slamming them too hard. These are also indoors, not outdoors.

It's a project that involves a lot of work, but there is a great reward. However when it comes time to sell, you will lose quite a bit of money as people do not know anything about these and a speaker with a brand on it will fetch more money.

-Josh Billings


I suspect he can get away with using LAB subwoofers, as others pointed out.  The first question that comes to mind is can he build them?  Either he needs to be a reasonably experienced cabinetmaker, or know someone who is, and have a shop with  a decent table saw as the main stationary power tool.  Routers that are set up to cut circles would be next on my list, and then air powered nail or staple guns.  
Since the used equipment marketplace seems non-existent there according to Daniel and Marjan, building them would be a real alternative to getting top quality subwoofers at a very good price, and hopefully help him in his business endeavors.  As Josh points out, there should be little hope for selling them later at even the value of the parts.
Given the type of music event described, I'd prefer having 10-12 for an outdoor event with 2000 people attending, but as Josh says, eight may be just enough.

Best regards,

John
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Danijel Horvat

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 06:54:02 am »

Daniel Kaiser wrote on Sun, 28 December 2008 19:17

Marjan Milosevic(MarjanM) wrote on Sun, 28 December 2008 17:49

All of you are forgetting one thing.

He is from Croatia. There are no used EAW, Yorkville, Nexo .... you name it top brand products to buy there. And if he transport them from USA it will cost an arm and a leg to get it there.

Daniel PM me your email address. (This is so we can talk on our language, as you can see his English is not very good)

I can buy this speakers here, but for +50% in price Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad And yea, here no used equipment.

one more price comparison:
peavey versarray sub 218 cost in Croatia for 4-8 units 2000$ per box Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked
In u.s.a I can buy it for 1100$ per unit. For  this difference in price I can buy 8 subs with two 8kw itech amps!!!
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Art Welter

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2008, 02:27:14 pm »

Daniel,

Since electronics and amps are near double the cost in Croatia, and if labor, wood, storage and transportation are relatively cheap, building horn loaded subs is the way to go.

However, in small rooms, the advantage of horn subs will be less, and you don’t get the low frequency extension until you couple several.

If you were consistently doing more shows in the 2000 person range, 8 or more Lab subs would be a good investment. It will not split up that well though, so you may loose on the cheap and cheerful rentals.

If most of your market is in the 200 person range, you are probably better off with more small ported cabinets than a few big Lab subs. Storage and transportation can be a major issue, and you will probably get more money faster with small units, and then could afford to expand into the larger market.

Many PA companies find they make more money with a “speakers on sticks” than anything else, bigger is not always better. There are advantages to being a “one box” house, but I really think there is such a difference between a small time DJ wanting to rent a sub for a little dance at a bar and an outdoor rave for 2000 that you are better off addressing them separately.

For rentals, I would be inclined to find an inexpensive plate amp and put it into a ported 15” speaker box. Put stacking feet and female receptacles on each box so they won’t vibrate off each other when in a stack. Every box can be sent out alone, or multiples as large as needed, and if you have an amp or speaker failure, you only are out one unit.

Art Welter
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Josh Billings

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2008, 06:55:54 pm »

the ported 15 is a good idea, but i'd probably go with an 18 and double 18" cabinets. They are easier to move, just as easy to make and cost less to make (wood).

However to do 2,000 people...you are looking at A LOT of Dual 18s.

Yeah you definitely need to figure out what you are going to do. If you rarely do shows of 500 or more just go with some dual 18s and scale accordingly. If you are constantly doing shows 500+ then the labs may be the way to go. It is kind a pain in the ass to setup all 4 subs for a show that could easily just take a couple dual 18s and be done with it.

-Josh Billings
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Danijel Horvat

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 02:35:54 am »

Another subs which I considered is Peavey versarray 218, rcf tts28 and eaw LA400. First two have 2.5kW and is double 18". But for these I need one amp in bridge with 4-5kW. LA400 is much smaller, lighter, have more sensitivity and I can drive 8 cans with one labgruppen fp+ 13000 amp. But, I don't know how perform horn in smaller indoor place? LA400 is portable version EAW monstrum DCS2 which is build for clubs. So, maybe is LA400 way to go. With 8 LA400 I think that I can have enough power for 500 people indoor?
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2008, 06:36:42 am »

LA400 is a good box but as a single dont go low enough for me. 45 Hz if i remember it correctly. So you must stack at least 4 in a group to hit the low note. If LA400 is an option for you then you should look at the Punisher box.

http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?pg=11&c=21

There are many more portable solutions than Lab sub. Especially if you dont have a permanent team working for you. Be aware that Labs are really big and heavy boxes.

Danijel Horvat

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2008, 06:49:58 am »

My bass boxes never work alone. Always in group or 4,6,8...So and LA400 will work in group of 4 or more. I dont need to low response, nothing bellow 35-40hz. This first oktave is only stress for amps, current draw is big with no any effects on sound quality modern dance music...I need cheest punch "effect" which is in 70-120hz region.
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Art Welter

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 02:04:18 pm »

Danijel,

For the punch frequencies, you would be fine with many of the designs from:

www.billfitzmaurice.com

Many of Bill’s designs are easy to build and use easy to find drivers.
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jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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Re: lab subs for dj rentals...
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 03:11:54 pm »

Marjan Milosevic(MarjanM) wrote on Sun, 28 December 2008 16:49

All of you are forgetting one thing.

He is from Croatia. There are no used EAW, Yorkville, Nexo .... you name it top brand products to buy there. And if he transport them from USA it will cost an arm and a leg to get it there.

Daniel PM me your email address. (This is so we can talk on our language, as you can see his English is not very good)


Martin and L'acoustics are both based in Europe.. and as we pay a premium here for their products - they pay a premium there for our products..
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