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Author Topic: Measurement Microphones  (Read 85790 times)

Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #130 on: March 05, 2010, 04:05:27 pm »

Tamas Tako wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 15:57

Hi all,

I dot know if anyone mentioned it before or not.
My favorite measuring mic is (and its also quite affordable) the one what comes with the Klark DN6000 analyser.
It also can be ordered as a mic alone.
it is dead flat, and it always comes with a measured response graph (measured with B&K equipment)

any toughts?

Thanks,

Tamas



Hey Tamas,
It is great to hear from you again.

Please send me an email to my current email-

curtislist@gmail.cxom

remove "x"

Thanks.
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Timo Beckman

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #131 on: March 05, 2010, 04:40:11 pm »

at 606
Thanx for the compliment i'm realy happy with them . But without the seminar in Montabauer from U and the one from MAGU at Grisby in Italy it would be just another set of mic's and now it's a serious tool in my work .
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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #132 on: March 05, 2010, 04:50:46 pm »

Hi Bob,
Many of the measurement programs made for speaker design for both Pro and home DIY were able to import a deviation file.
Not just a couple of points for SPL, but up to 300 points including phase for each point.

When using cheaper mics that are not flat in the first place it makes sense to me that measurement programs should have the capability to import deviation over 300 points or more.


Bob McCarthy wrote on Mon, 22 December 2008 16:26

I own 8 Earthwoks M30s. They are sufficient for my needs, although I probably would have bought DPA 4090 series mics had they been on the market at the time I bought mine. They are now 5 years old. 2 of them will go back for rework shortly.

They drift in level over time and as a result I calibrate them at every job.



Also I can see that you will have drift over time, but having it to the point where you need to calibrate every time you use the program surprises me.
Once you calibrate a mic does the measurement program you are using fail to save that information file when you quit the program?
I understand it drifting over a year or two, but it should not drift worth mentioning by the time you use the program again (30 days)?

Bob McCarthy wrote on Mon, 22 December 2008 16:26


I never do any work with a single mic so for me relative level and freq response are more critical parameters than absolute freq response.



I have not kept up so I don’t know how many programs that can use deviation files can use multiple microphones. I don’t believe Praxis will add multiple mics, but it might happen.
I have not checked Clio or PHS Spectraplus, etc

Note: People like Kim Giardin and others have been calibrating mics for more than a decade.
Typical charge was about $25 each. Once a year is usually enough and inexpensive.

Bob McCarthy wrote on Mon, 22 December 2008 16:26


As for the earlier question re the B&K calibrator - it SHOULD work with the M30 adaptor. Calibrators are made to a standard and different mics have a specific adaptor mechanism to fit that.

Finally, at a recent SIM school in Germany a guy pulled out his Beringer mic and we compared it to the DPA 4007 using a dual mic transfer function. Everyone was prepared for a big laugh but the 25 cent mic did very well (this is the second time I have seen this so I was not too shocked.) So as much as I love to use Beringer as a punch line I will have to hold back some times and go with my old standby: Bose.


I posted the deviation file for the Behringer ECM8000 as a graph on the LAB more than once.
One mistake made is looking at a phase difference up above 16kHz and thinking the mic is bad when all you need to do is add a couple of micro seconds for flat delay and it look wonderful.

Once a calibration file is made and used it is very difficult to see the difference between a top line ACO that was used to calibrate it in the first place and this $40 mic. I know this from use.

Where I would worry (other then drift over time) is how consistent is it off axis. This should depend on the physical size and shape of the mic body, correct?


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Tamas Tako

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #133 on: March 05, 2010, 04:58:36 pm »

Too Tall (Curtis H. List) wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 22:50


Where I would worry (other then drift over time) is how consistent is it off axis. This should depend on the physical size and shape of the mic body, correct?





This is exactly why I love my Klark 6051 mic, as it has an 1/4 inch diameter...
the factory measurement shows a +/-0.25dB deviation from dead flat from 20Hz to 20kHz.
I have also an older (12 years old) which I just checked with a B&K pistophon ,and it was still just 0.2dB shifted in level....

Not bad...

Cheers,

Tamas
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Bob McCarthy

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #134 on: March 05, 2010, 05:38:36 pm »

Too Tall,

I agree that deviation files are well and good and can really help moving between mics without a brain reset.

My SIM3 has level deviation compensation and that is good up to a point............. and the point is that some of my aged (7 years and many miles) mics don't reliably hold their sensitivity steady overnight.  At this point my confidence level is less than perfect - and therefore I do a daily calibration.

Bottom line is I need to send them ALL in for snip snip here and a snip snip there and a couple of la-di-da's - or give up on them and get a new set of......????????

I would never (and have never) dialed in sensitivity numbers of multiple based on what they say on the box. That is just a 1 kHz spec. Too loose. I match multiple mic levels based on as wide a freq range as possible.
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Tom Young

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #135 on: March 06, 2010, 01:41:39 am »

They don't appear to be making the DN6000 anymore.

If I recalll correctly, the provided 6051 mic is one of the generic plastic diaphragm mic's that looks like the DBX measurement mic, as well as those sold by Sencore for their audio multitesters (formerly AudioToolbox).

Like all of the Chinese made plastic diaphragm mic's, the quality depends on the diaphragm (one can buy really good ones, so-so ones and mezz-a-mezz ones - these are tested and sorted after manufacture) and the electronics, which I think are either specified by the branded manufacturer and supplied by the mic manufacturer (in China) or are installed by the branded manufacturer after delivery.

I appears that (when they made the DN6000) KT measured and calibrated this mic.

If it works for you, Tamas, that's great.
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Tom Young
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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #136 on: March 06, 2010, 01:45:35 am »

Grant-

Intriqued by the allure of a reasonably priced nickel-diaphragm measurement mic, I queried Avant Electronics and they said:

"Thanks so much for the email & interest in the AK-Type Vii.
It would probably be a very nice measurement mic for you although we don't lay claim to it as such..."

Hmmmm. I will try to get one to play with.

But maybe the search goes on.
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Tom Young

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #137 on: March 06, 2010, 02:00:43 am »

If the Avant AK-Type VII turns out to not be viable (or worth the risk) then I suggest you take a look at the already mentioned Audix MK1.

They are supposed to be in production by April and I have not evaluated one (yet). But it looks promising as a lower cost, decent measurement mic.

http://www.audixusa.com/docs/products/TM1.shtml
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Grant Conklin

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #138 on: March 06, 2010, 02:27:48 am »

Tom Young wrote on Sat, 06 March 2010 00:45


...I queried Avant Electronics and they said:

"Thanks so much for the email & interest in the AK-Type Vii.
It would probably be a very nice measurement mic for you although we don't lay claim to it as such..."




That's weird.  It seems to have everything you'd want in a measurement mic, and they claim it's  
"compared directly to the very finest European omni reference mics....  used for critical acoustical calibration measurements and  testing...  Complies with IEC651 TYPE 1 STANDARDS...  Free-field Microphone (calibration grade)...  "
But they don't claim it to be a measurement mic?  

The new TM-1 definitely scores high in the looks department.  In looking at the frequency response graph (if those can be trusted) it doesn't appear to have much over the Beyer MM1, which I have and like.  

Grant
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Tom Young

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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2010, 07:24:16 am »

Quote:

That's weird. It seems to have everything you'd want in a measurement mic, and they claim it's "compared directly to the very finest European omni reference mics.... used for critical acoustical calibration measurements and testing... Complies with IEC651 TYPE 1 STANDARDS... Free-field Microphone (calibration grade)... "  But they don't claim it to be a measurement mic?


I was just as taken aback. Maybe it's an issue of QC. Specifically, do they have the means to produce the same, exact performance from mic to mic to mic.

I don't know.
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Tom Young
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Re: Measurement Microphones
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2010, 07:24:16 am »


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