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[rodney Coro almonte]

I just heard this sub this past week. http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/subs/BP-SD21.htm

All I can say is WOW, for its size and price range I can't think of anything that can compete for output.  I heard two of them in a club, but I will get a chance to listen to six of them at an outdoor event in december.  I will let you know in a few weeks, how they performed outdoors.

[Gene Hardage]

rodney Coro almonte wrote on Thu, 20 November 2008 12:36

I just heard this sub this past week. http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/subs/BP-SD21.htm All I can say is WOW, for its size and price range I can't think of anything that can compete for output.  I heard two of them in a club, but I will get a chance to listen to six of them at an outdoor event in december.  I will let you know in a few weeks, how they performed outdoors.

Ditto on the WOW dept.

They've got several things going for them.  First of all - they look awsome...



Next they have lots of smooth-tight-loud low end that could make any DJ synth or 5 stringer happy.   Of course there are lots of boxes that get down, but this one is truly special.  For it's size - it's really hard to beat.

Where and when is the December gig with 6 of them gonna be?

[drewgandy]

Quote:

* Measurement Made Using 2.83 Volt, 4th Order, Band-limited Pink Noise from 38 - 80 Hz    * One Cabinet Measured 106 dB and Two Cabinets In Parallel at four Ohms were measured to be 109 dB

This little bit of info doesn't seem to add up.  With 2 cabs in parallel I would expect a roughly 6 db rise in sensitivity.  Otherwise, yes they look awesome.  Little jet engines.  I wonder if you can use them to warm your hands on that outdoor gig.  (oh, its in florida isn't it?)  

[Ivan Beaver]

drewgandy wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 15:17

Quote:      * Measurement Made Using 2.83 Volt, 4th Order, Band-limited Pink Noise from 38 - 80 Hz    * One Cabinet Measured 106 dB and Two Cabinets In Parallel at four Ohms were measured to be 109 dB This little bit of info doesn't seem to add up.  With 2 cabs in parallel I would expect a roughly 6 db rise in sensitivity.  Otherwise, yes they look awesome.  Little jet engines.  I wonder if you can use them to warm your hands on that outdoor gig.  (oh, its in florida isn't it?)

Unless the input voltage was dropped to 2 volts for a 1 watt input.

Also the use of pink noise is questionable.  Is the reading of the "average" of the pink noise signal or the top of the crest-which typically is 6 db higher and up to 12dB.

Or maybe better put, is the 2.83V the average of the pink noise signal or the peak.

Ther are all sorts of games that can be played with numbers and measurements.  Unless you know the rules (parameters of the test-test gear-measurement conditions etc), it is hard to tell exactly what you are dealing with sometimes.

[drewgandy]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 14:29

Unless the input voltage was dropped to 2 volts for a 1 watt input. Also the use of pink noise is questionable.  Is the reading of the "average" of the pink noise signal or the top of the crest-which typically is 6 db higher and up to 12dB. Or maybe better put, is the 2.83V the average of the pink noise signal or the peak. Ther are all sorts of games that can be played with numbers and measurements.  Unless you know the rules (parameters of the test-test gear-measurement conditions etc), it is hard to tell exactly what you are dealing with sometimes.

Yes, without some graphs and more detail....

Assumed that the two lines of notes were to be taken together so - 2.83v it is.  But if the drive voltage was dropped (how daring) then of course the numbers add up.  

I do find the 106db number to be rather unbelievable for a box that size.  Since there is no graph showing the actual shape of the response it may be a case of picking the spot with the best view.  38hz is probably well below 100db.  But again, this is mere speculation.  It is after all, blue.  

drew

[rodney Coro almonte]

Unfortunately, that outdoor gig was canceled. It was going to happen in Channel side but the sponsor pulled out.

I do believe that the night club I work for just ordered 2 of them. Once they come in and get installed I will let you know.

[Marjan Milosevic]

106 db?

That is definitely by marketing measurement scale.
Or it is true at some unusable frequency like 250Hz or so.

[Ivan Beaver]

Here is a good idea of how "numbers" can be used.

At a gig a little while ago I got the following readings at the same position with the same meter-same band-same PA.  The only difference being what scale/weighting was used.

A weighted slow  around 106dB.

C weighted slow   around 120dB

C weighted fast  around 128dB

Peak fast response  around 136dB

So when the question comes up "how loud was it" what is the correct answer?  And also the question of how loud the cabinets could get would be?

30 dB is a difference of 1000 times!!!(in power)  So if this was a single loudspeaker you could either use 1 watt or 1000 watts to get the reading-depending on the measurement used.

For every complex question, there is a simple-easy to understand-WRONG answer.  You have to have DETAILS to fully explain something like a loudspeaker response.

[drewgandy]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 17:07

Here is a good idea of how "numbers" can be used. At a gig a little while ago I got the following readings at the same position with the same meter-same band-same PA.  The only difference being what scale/weighting was used. A weighted slow  around 106dB. C weighted slow   around 120dB C weighted fast  around 128dB Peak fast response  around 136dB So when the question comes up "how loud was it" what is the correct answer?  And also the question of how loud the cabinets could get would be? 30 dB is a difference of 1000 times!!!(in power)  So if this was a single loudspeaker you could either use 1 watt or 1000 watts to get the reading-depending on the measurement used. For every complex question, there is a simple-easy to understand-WRONG answer.  You have to have DETAILS to fully explain something like a loudspeaker response.

Amen.

[Matt Vivlamore]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 18:07

Here is a good idea of how "numbers" can be used. At a gig a little while ago I got the following readings at the same position with the same meter-same band-same PA.  The only difference being what scale/weighting was used. A weighted slow  around 106dB. C weighted slow   around 120dB C weighted fast  around 128dB Peak fast response  around 136dB So when the question comes up "how loud was it" what is the correct answer?  And also the question of how loud the cabinets could get would be? 30 dB is a difference of 1000 times!!!(in power)  So if this was a single loudspeaker you could either use 1 watt or 1000 watts to get the reading-depending on the measurement used. For every complex question, there is a simple-easy to understand-WRONG answer.  You have to have DETAILS to fully explain something like a loudspeaker response.

Isn't there big difference in the weights on the low end (200 or 300 and below)?
A weight is the human ear.
C weight is almost flat (typical full range of a loud speaker).

[Gene Hardage]

This forum can be brutal with "outsider" gear.   But as the resident Ramsdell fan boy I'll charge ahead anyway.   I'm not in a position to quote numbers or even understand them.  I will however stand by my ears opinion and they say these subs rock.  I'm sure Rodney agrees with the rock opinion as he's heard them too.  I got to use 2 of the old front load Bema types for a gig a few years back and they were a great help for my event.  These newer P Audio types with the magnet showing are too heavy for my needs but if I were a modern DJ or a major sound company It would be a no brainer to use these for multiple reasons.  These things are DJ bling that actually work.  The local event that was out on Sand Key had 6 of them for a name DJ and they kept having trouble with the CDs skipping from too much bass.  Of course bling is not a good enough reason to use something.  Sound and performance are what people really care about.  Without any numbers and only my ears to back it up here some of my observations.  They can almost compete with horn loaded subs.  They sound smooth and tight all the way down to a low B on a bass guitar.  Because of the way some horn loaded subs act inside (resonate peaks)  they might be easier to use in some inside venues because they are still more or less a front load type speaker.

[Rick Powell]

[quote title=drewgandy wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 14:17]

Quote:

Little jet engines.  I wonder if you can use them to warm your hands on that outdoor gig.  (oh, its in florida isn't it?)

Actually, when I glanced at the pic, it reminded me that it was time to take my dirty clothes to the laundromat.  I like to use the super-size front loaders, even if they do cost $2.00 a load  

[John Chiara]

[quote title=Rick Powell wrote on Fri, 05 December 2008 01:42]

drewgandy wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 14:17

Quote:   Little jet engines.  I wonder if you can use them to warm your hands on that outdoor gig.  (oh, its in florida isn't it?)   Actually, when I glanced at the pic, it reminded me that it was time to take my dirty clothes to the laundromat.  I like to use the super-size front loaders, even if they do cost $2.00 a load

$2.00???Where do YOU live?
I agree though..the extraction is WAYYYY better and worth the extra.
John

[Dave Rickard]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 03 December 2008 16:07

For every complex question, there is a simple-easy to understand-WRONG answer.  You have to have DETAILS to fully explain something like a loudspeaker response.

That would make a good sig line....

[Jeff Babcock]

Gene Hardage wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:53

This forum can be brutal with "outsider" gear.

Gene, I think this forum is reasonably open to new and good products.  However to gain widespread acceptance, products here tend to need to have been used in real world situations and put through their paces before they are given the "OK".  In this case there are a couple of positive reviews which is a good start.

I'm glad you like these subs.  For a DJ on a budget I'm sure they will work well.  I can't see these appealing much to SR types unless the grill is backed with foam to block sight of that driver.  Their look right now just screams "DJ" which certainly will not appeal to a large percentage of SR companies.

[Gene Hardage]

Jeff Babcock wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:11

Gene Hardage wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:53 This forum can be brutal with "outsider" gear.   Gene, I think this forum is reasonably open to new and good products.  However to gain widespread acceptance, products here tend to need to have been used in real world situations and put through their paces before they are given the "OK".  In this case there are a couple of positive reviews which is a good start. I'm glad you like these subs.  For a DJ on a budget I'm sure they will work well.  I can't see these appealing much to SR types unless the grill is backed with foam to block sight of that driver.  Their look right now just screams "DJ" which certainly will not appeal to a large percentage of SR companies.

Jet engine and clothes dryer comments aside...

This is precisely what I was talking about and the classic backhanded complement to boot!  Hopefully the original poster will pipe up and share his opinions as he is the only other person on this forum who admits to actually hearing these things.    A typical DJ on a budget will most likely go for the usual fare that can be found at a music store and they rarely go for anything hefty like the JBL 2x18 cabs so that counts these guys out as they are all that and more in the pound - price - and performance departments.

There is a thread going about the new Yorkville 21 sub that should help to shine a positive light towards all things 21 as they seem to have the general approval of most posters here.  I can't wait to hear both of them in some kind of low note comparison test as they are of similar size and design.
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/40254/17444/

[Jeff Babcock]

Gene Hardage wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 20:56

Jeff Babcock wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:11 Gene Hardage wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:53 This forum can be brutal with "outsider" gear.   Gene, I think this forum is reasonably open to new and good products.  However to gain widespread acceptance, products here tend to need to have been used in real world situations and put through their paces before they are given the "OK".  In this case there are a couple of positive reviews which is a good start. I'm glad you like these subs.  For a DJ on a budget I'm sure they will work well.  I can't see these appealing much to SR types unless the grill is backed with foam to block sight of that driver.  Their look right now just screams "DJ" which certainly will not appeal to a large percentage of SR companies. Jet engine and clothes dryer comments aside... This is precisely what I was talking about and the classic backhanded complement to boot!

Gene, I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just pointing out that most of the types who post here are not DJ's, and so the visuals of these cabs will be an issue for many.  It does not matter if they sound fantastic, if they look "DJ" then it will scare off a large part of the pro market.

They probably ARE much better than what many DJ's might buy at Banjo Center.  Anything to stop them from buying CV's and similar crap makes this world a better place.

[Scott Deeter]

Jeff Babcock wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:27

It does not matter if they sound fantastic, if they look "DJ" then it will scare off a large part of the pro market.

If the quote above is true, then I think this is a sad thing. I would hope the first priority of the Pro sound market would be for better "SOUND" not the look. Thinking in the beginning of sound reproduction, speakers in a box was the look, then came along horn loaded subs "What the hell are those things". Then those hanging "big black banana" (say that 10 times fast) things came in time. I would hope that hearing is believing and striving for the best possible sound should be the first priority.

[Stuart Pendleton]

If it was true, Funkion One would be sold at banjo center (maybe even Walmart with other toys...)  It doesn't LOOK pro. Frankly, I never thought that the Turbo blue box looked pro.  I can't imagine choosing that color if I had a choice in it.  I think most pro's go for sound first, and then other factors enter in.

[Tim McCulloch]

Stuart Pendleton wrote on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:56

If it was true, Funkion One would be sold at banjo center (maybe even Walmart with other toys...)  It doesn't LOOK pro. Frankly, I never thought that the Turbo blue box looked pro.  I can't imagine choosing that color if I had a choice in it.  I think most pro's go for sound first, and then other factors enter in.

I do not own, and do not recall ever using, Ramsdell speakers... but for a new brand, or an established brand trying to open new markets, the perception is reality.  It takes a huge amount of money to overcome negative first impressions.

Funktion One has a fine pedigree, but their visual design makes them appear "disco," at least on this side of the pond.  For anyone who doesn't know the background behind the firm, that's a big thing to overcome.

FWIW, I think the Ramsdell sub in question looks kind of cool, and once the lights go out nobody will see it anyway...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Josh Ricci]

I agree on the looks. I'd rather just have a boring old gray or black cab and speaker frame.

I'm wondering why they decided to inverse mount the driver? Seems like they eat up a lot useable enclosure volume which is at a premium as always where bass is concerned.Drivers are usually more noisy from the back as well and you lose some cone area using the back too. Perhaps they are getting some kind of quasi loading from the way that the driver is recessed in the cab? Why would they do that?

Never mind.   I just saw that it was a bandpass design. I didn't notice a cover over the speaker at first.