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Author Topic: Digidesign D-Show Profile Mix Rack System  (Read 46816 times)

Sheldon Radford

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2008, 03:26:22 pm »

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. All good stuff.

Quote:

I was also really looking for a simple and flexible insert and move channel function, but all I could figure out was it just wasn't possible.

To move channels on the console, simply select the channel(s)  to be moved, then right-click on screen where you want to move them to and choose “Move Selected Strips Here”. Note that the console needs to be in Config mode in order to do this, and there will be a brief interruption of audio while the re-shuffling takes place (similar to a Make Stereo operation).

Quote:

I'd have to adjust my eyes to finding the frequency - the type is really small (or maybe I need to use a larger monitor!)

Whenever a parameter is adjusted its value is shown in a few places: on the control surface itself, on its associated on screen control, and in big blue letters/numbers at the bottom of the screen (which is what I find to be the most useful).

Quote:

Speaking of Aux Sends... is there a quick way to change a post fader send to pre fader and vice versa without clicking the PRE button on the display?

On a VENUE D-Show surface yes, but not on Profile surface. This can be a pain when you need to toggle pre/post state on a bunch of channels, which is where the multi-select feature comes in really handy: simply multi-select the channels to be changed, then toggle the pre/post button on any one of the channels to set the parameter for the entire group.

Quote:

I tried using the Bank Safe feature to keep channels 41-48 on that right bank of channels, but I found that I lost channels 17-24 in the process.

Bank Safe does override channels on the lower layers; in order to bring those channels back onto the console simply insert blank strips to lay the console out as you desire. To insert blank strips right click on the faders on screen and choose “Insert Blank Strip”.

Quote:

I could use a nice, full featured parametric on the outputs, too.

Yep, that’d be a nice addition. In the meantime it’s possible to put any number of PEQ plug-ins on the outputs. Some popular plug-ins for this are the Sony Oxfords, Massenburg and Serato plug-ins.

Quote:

If I can't get ahold of an HD rig to play the show back with, is it possible to use this feature with a 3rd party multi-track playback system and assumedly come straight into the preamps? (I'm guessing no)

Any system could be patched straight to the preamps, but the channel gains would need to be reset for the playback tracks as opposed to the live mics. The real beauty of virtual soundcheck using VENUE’s Pro Tools HD option is that it injects the digital audio after the preamp, where it then passes through the channel at exactly the same "effective" gain setting as the microphone. This makes the whole process really transparent and easy to use.

Sheldon Radford
Digidesign






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Robert Scovill

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 03:47:57 pm »

Hey there --
Just wanted to take a minute and address a couple of your comments --
Adam Robinson wrote on Mon, 29 September 2008 06:09


Speaking of Aux Sends... is there a quick way to change a post fader send to pre fader and vice versa without clicking the PRE button on the display?


On Profile, changing the pre-post status of one or more auxes can only be done by first "selecting" the channel and then clicking the on-screen pre/post switches. However you can affect numerous channels at one time by using "multi-select". One way to mult-iselect large numbers of channels, is to simply select an entire bank of channels by left clicking on the on-screen numbers 1-8, 9-16 etc. and you will notice all faders on the screen are then highlighted in blue. (you also get a screen warning that you have multiple inputs selected

index.php/fa/18155/0/

Now anything you do on the last selected channel (short of pre-amp gain) will affect all of the selected channels. Now, go to the pre-post switch on the screen for the desired aux and choose pre-post and that status will appear on ALL of the selected channels.

You can also do this by holding down the multi-select button and then pressing the select switches on any number of channels. This allows for selecting various channels instead of entire banks of channels. Think of the multi-select button as the "shift" key on a computer allowing you to "shift+select" any number of channels.

See image in the next post --

On D-Show you can use the exact same approach but you also have the ability to engage an "actual" pre-post switch on the surface in order to change the status of the selected channels.

See image in the subsequent post --

Adam Robinson wrote on Mon, 29 September 2008 06:09


One of the layout schemes that I've always really enjoyed with Digico consoles is the ability to change banks on one section of faders without affecting others.  I always like to have the same 8 channels under my right hand (vocals and a couple extras) and then use the other banks for the rest of my channels.  I tried using the Bank Safe feature to keep channels 41-48 on that right bank of channels, but I found that I lost channels 17-24 in the process.


You can indeed do this very simply on D-Show, simply hold down the "A" bank button for instance until it flashes. Once accomplished the Side Car will now bank separately from the Main Unit. The same functionality can apply to the rotary encoders as well, where you could have a targeted aux on the Side Car and a different aux assigned to the rotary encoders on the Main Unit. Simply press down the encoder assignment switch until it blinks and they will be discrete. Press the switch until it blinks again, and they will operate as one bank again.

This functionality is not available to the Profile surface because of the lack of a second set of bank assignment switches. All 24 faders operate on one bank.

Adam Robinson wrote on Mon, 29 September 2008 06:09


I could use a nice, full featured parametric on the outputs, too.



I would strongly suggest either the EQIII Plug in by Digidesign

  http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=22&langid=100& amp; amp; amp;itemid=4562

or the Serato Parametric by RANE.

  http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=22&langid=100& amp; amp; amp;itemid=4821

Both excellent units for system tuning etc. and there are many more excellent very high quality plug ins out there perfect for system tuning duties.

Robert Scovill
Market Manager
Live Sound Products
Digidesign
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Adam Robinson

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 03:52:01 pm »

Thanks, Sheldon for all the responses!  A few more questions, etc. for you......

Quote:

To move channels on the console, simply select the channel(s) to be moved, then right-click on screen where you want to move them to and choose “Move Selected Strips Here”. Note that the console needs to be in Config mode in order to do this, and there will be a brief interruption of audio while the re-shuffling takes place (similar to a Make Stereo operation).


I have a really hard time doing this without the rest of my channel lineup getting messed up.  For instance, right now in the offline editor, I attempted to move my drum trigger channel from 17 to 25.  When I clicked "Move Selected Strips Here" on channel 25, the drum trigger ended up on channel 24!  I then tried pushing it a few past channel 25, which pushed my original channel 25 to channel 24...

Quote:

Whenever a parameter is adjusted its value is shown in a few places: on the control surface itself, on its associated on screen control, and in big blue letters/numbers at the bottom of the screen (which is what I find to be the most useful).


I guess I was looking too much at the EQ strip on the screen to even notice this feature.  The numbers at the bottom of the screen are probably the most useful to me.

Quote:

On a VENUE D-Show surface yes, but not on Profile surface. This can be a pain when you need to toggle pre/post state on a bunch of channels, which is where the multi-select feature comes in really handy: simply multi-select the channels to be changed, then toggle the pre/post button on any one of the channels to set the parameter for the entire group.


On the Digico, I change the send to my external FX unit (on my vocal channels) from pre to post and back by using a macro.  Is there a similar feature on the Profile that I can use?

Quote:

Bank Safe does override channels on the lower layers; in order to bring those channels back onto the console simply insert blank strips to lay the console out as you desire. To insert blank strips right click on the faders on screen and choose “Insert Blank Strip”.


Even though the Profile with Mix Rack will only run with 48 channels, if I insert 8 blank channels will I gain access to bank "C"  ?

Quote:

Yep, that’d be a nice addition. In the meantime it’s possible to put any number of PEQ plug-ins on the outputs. Some popular plug-ins for this are the Sony Oxfords, Massenburg and Serato plug-ins.


I wish the concert venue in question had these!  Their setup has a very basic assortment of plug ins...but yes, a good idea!

Quote:

 Any system could be patched straight to the preamps, but the channel gains would need to be reset for the playback tracks as opposed to the live mics. The real beauty of virtual soundcheck using VENUE’s Pro Tools HD option is that it injects the digital audio after the preamp, where it then passes through the channel at exactly the same "effective" gain setting as the microphone. This makes the whole process really transparent and easy to use.


Know anyone in Chicago with a Profile / HD setup?
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Robert Scovill

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 03:54:26 pm »

Robert Scovill wrote on Mon, 29 September 2008 20:47

See image in the next post --


index.php/fa/18156/0/

Multi-Select Button (top left) and Bank A-D Selectors

Robert Scovill
Market Manager
Live Sound Products
Digidesign
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Robert Scovill

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2008, 03:56:08 pm »

Robert Scovill wrote on Mon, 29 September 2008 20:47

 See image in the subsequent post --



index.php/fa/18157/0/

Aux Pre Post Switches on D-Show

Robert Scovill
Market Manager
Live Sound Products
Digidesign
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Adam Robinson

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2008, 03:58:57 pm »

Robert

I was posting my response to Sheldon as yours was put up.  Thanks also, for the advice.

Quote:

One way to mult-iselect large numbers of channels, is to simply select an entire bank of channels by left clicking on the on-screen numbers 1-8, 9-16 etc. and you will notice all faders on the screen are then highlighted in blue.


That's great!  One of those little tricks I guess I would have had to otherwise really poke around for!

Quote:

This functionality is not available to the Profile surface because of the lack of a second set of bank assignment switches. All 24 faders operate on one bank.


Darn.  The desk I'm going to come up on a couple more times this year is a Profile with a Mix Rack.  No Venue+Side Car =(

Quote:

I would strongly suggest either the EQIII Plug in by Digidesign

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=22&langid=100& amp; amp; amp;itemid=4562

or the Serato Parametric by RANE.

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=22&langid=100& amp; amp; amp;itemid=4821


I need to suggest to this concert venue that they get some more plug ins!

Thanks again!

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Sheldon Radford

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2008, 12:57:54 am »

Hi Adam,

Good questions, let's see if I can clarify a bit...

Quote:

For instance, right now in the offline editor, I attempted to move my drum trigger channel from 17 to 25.  When I clicked "Move Selected Strips Here" on channel 25, the drum trigger ended up on channel 24!  I then tried pushing it a few past channel 25, which pushed my original channel 25 to channel 24...

Yep, I see what's going on here. What's happening is that a lower-numbered channel (17) is being moved to a higher-numbered channel (25), which leaves a gap (at 17), which is then filled in by shuffling the remaining channels down by one.

One solution is to add a blank strip back in at strip 17. Try this:
1) Select ch 17
2) Right-click on ch 25 and choose "Move Selected Strips Here"
3) Right click on Ch 17 (which has now been filled by ch 18) and choose "Insert Blank Strip..."

This puts everything back in its rightful place.

Oh, and this is probably a good place to mention the console's History function. Any time a significant change is made (like re-ordering the channel strips), the console first saves the current state as a "History" file on the Filing>History tab. Think of it like a big Undo button - and it will come in handy someday...

Quote:

On the Digico, I change the send to my external FX unit (on my vocal channels) from pre to post and back by using a macro.  Is there a similar feature on the Profile that I can use?

Sure. The easiest way to do this is to create a snapshot scoped to only include the channel(s) and parameter(s) to be affected. In this case you'd set the aux in question as an Aux FX (Options>Snapshots page), and then scope the Aux FX data type for just the vocal channels (highlighted in red in the example image below).

Create two snapshots - one w/ the aux set to Pre and one for Post. Then, on the Options>Events page create two events (which are similar to macros) and assign them to trigger the appropriate snapshots using function switches on the console surface. The snapshot system is extremely powerful and flexible. So much so, that we've devoted an entire webinar to the topic on December 010. Check out http://www.digidesign.com/lswebinars for full details and to sign up.

Here are a few screen shots to illustrate:
index.php/fa/18161/0/

Quote:

Even though the Profile with Mix Rack will only run with 48 channels, if I insert 8 blank channels will I gain access to bank "C"?

Yes. Even though there are 48 processing channels available (complete w/ EQ, Dynamics, etc.) there are a total of 96 strip positions available on the Profile console, arranged as four banks of 24. As blank strips are added the channels will automatically spill over onto the lower banks C and D.

Quote:

Know anyone in Chicago with a Profile / HD setup?

Check with the fine folks at T.C. Furlong. If they can't help hit me back and we'll do our best to connect you.

Lastly, regarding using PEQs on outputs: I forgot to mention our own EQ III plug-in. It's a great sounding PEQ, and it's a free download!

Sheldon Radford
Digidesign
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: Things I Haven't Liked That Much So Far
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2008, 10:05:32 am »

Sheldon Radford wrote on Sun, 28 September 2008 18:28

Quote:

...and no gate action metering on every channel, only selected channels

The selected channel gives a detailed view of the gate action, but there's also a single LED on each channel that indicates gate open/hold/closed action via the normal green/yellow/red indication.

Ahh, not the best, but certainly better than I thought. I must not have been paying very close attention and thought they only indicated that a gate was active, not its activity. Thanks, Sheldon!
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-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Bennett Prescott

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Re: Digidesign D-Show Profile Mix Rack System
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2008, 10:33:22 am »

Well, the Profile is all packed up and ready to go home. It may even be gone. Thanks again to Digidesign and Sheldon and Scovill for the great opportunity, it's a very well put together and polished little desk.

Before I forget, I also wanted to say how much I liked that the metering across the board (so to speak!) is in "analog" units. None of this 0dBFS, there's a 0dB on every meter and a +18 or so to show you how much "headroom" you've got. One of those things that's so friendly you forget it's there until you have to use another desk (*cough* Yamaha *cough*) and every glance at a meter requires extra thought.

One other nagging concern: The VCA bank indicator in the master fader section is bright red. When I see red I think "bad", but in this case there's nothing wrong... I got used to it, but considering I left that section in VCA/DCA/Whatever mode 99% of the time, the light was annoying. At least there's a dimmer, the console LEDs do get pretty bright when it's dark out!

http://bennettprescott.com/images/bige2008/Thumbnails/27.jpg

The last weekend was spent with the Profile at FOH on the Arena stage. Fergie brought a Venue D-Show for monitors and used the Profile at FOH, so that was fun, too. We had a few other guest engineers on the surface as well, one of whom brought his show on a USB stick and was happy to be able to just plug it in. LeeAnn Rimes owns her own XL4, so that was one of the few shows we didn't use the Profile for. All in all there were a lot of impressed and happy BEs getting their hands on the desk, one of whom said specifically this time was the straw that broke the camel's back, and he'll be speccing the Profile for his next tour.

I'm not sure there's much more I can say, so here are some more photos:

http://bennettprescott.com/images/bige2008/Thumbnails/68.jpghttp://bennettprescott.com/images/bige2008/Thumbnails/73.jpg
http://bennettprescott.com/images/bige2008/Thumbnails/76.jpghttp://bennettprescott.com/images/bige2008/Thumbnails/72.jpg
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-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Bill Forbes

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week 2-Main Stage
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2008, 11:01:22 pm »

After working the past few days on the COH stage I have the opportunity to set up the console from "scratch" and use it on our Main stage. Friday night is a double header. Opening act is Savannah Jack and our head liner for the evening is a local gal, Ashley Gearing (she now lives in Nashville) I was also looking forward to this night because I would have the chance to actually mix both bands. ( usually we wear the hats of "providers" more often than "mixers") I was amazed at the small footprint this console has after we removed the 4K from mix position out 10x20' platform looks empty! I could fix 4 Profiles in the same area.

My first task was to setup the console. I wasn't sure how to "Zero it out" so I went into the "Options" section on the screen and clicked on "system" and then clicked "Clear console" I'm sure there is a better way to do this? Now I had a clear slate. I then setup my "Left, Right, Sub, frontfill, and wingfill outputs. I had 31 band EQ's assigned to each. What, no rack of outboard EQ's? VERY COOL! So I labeled inputs for both acts I used layer 1 (ch1-22) for the headliner and started the opener on layer 2 (ch25-40). This by now was pretty easy, If i was a better typist it would go a lot faster. As I waited for the band I also setup all my assignments, comps, gates, and added some plug ins. All this I then saved as a snapshot just in case. Sound check went just as fast as it would with my 4K maybe faster seeing how I didn't have to "hard patch" just "click".

The location of the keyboard and mouse are perfect and accessible.  The show went off without a hitch. I found myself nervous a couple of times switching between function , seeing all those faders move and wondering if I might hit a wrong button and mute the whole rig, but that was all in my head. I wish those darn TALL encoders were a bit shorter so I could see behind them.( I found myself on my "tippy toes" more than a few times)
        Saturday was Jordan Sparks Their TM and BE were very cool, we ran into them last year with "Daughtry" and that went very well. When we first advanced of the show they didn't want the Profile and wanted a 5D instead (out of familiarity i would assume) but when given the option of using a "noisy" 4K or the Profile they choose the latter. The BE "Moe" got around the thing like a champ by the end of the show. Some SLAMMING low end! (16 SB1000's tend to do that) He was really cool with the Profile and I think he will request it in the future!
        Sunday was Jason Aldean their FOH guy REALLY knew the Profile, he loved the thing. He walked up loaded his USB stick and uploaded his show. That quick! He was also very helpful in answering some of my "stupid" questions. On his stick he had a generic "opening act" setup and I used that for the opener Lo Cash Cowboys. At the end of the show he mentioned his mind was made up and will be requesting a Profile for his upcoming tour.
I'm lovin' this console more and more.
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Bill Forbes
SPL Systems
Agawam, MA.
www.splsystems.net
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