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Author Topic: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?  (Read 13722 times)

Mario Data

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2008, 07:35:16 pm »

This might be a dumb question, but does anyone have a drawing of a 4x8 piece of birch with a layout of the best possible use of the wood.  I could probably sit down and try to figure it out, but I thought if someone already had one I think a bunch of virgin Lab builders like me might benefit.   Thanks guys
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peter.golde

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2008, 09:10:41 pm »

I did it with autocad if you got something to read the file
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Mario Data

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2008, 09:23:22 pm »

I will find something to read it or take the file to staples and have it printed.  I will PM you my email.  Thanks Peter.
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JBL PRX535 over x2 PRX718s mains.  PRX512m monitors.  Studiolive 24.4.2 console.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2008, 10:35:40 pm »

Real 13 ply 18mm birch is more readily available in 5x5 sheets.  The real 4x8 stuff is usually a good bit more expensive.

Now if you are looking at the laminated birch with a poplar core that is only 5 layers of poplar and 2 very thin layers of birch (not for strength-but for looks) then that is more readily available in 4x8 sheets at you local home center.  It is not as strong as the 13 ply all birch stuff.

You usually need to go to a lumber yard to get the real stuff.
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Mario Data

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2008, 10:39:54 pm »

Our local home center is a home depot and Menards and they both stock 13 ply 4x8 birch.  They only have a couple sheets, but they can order more no problem.  I have seen the cheap stuff, but the 13 ply at Menards is $70 a sheet. I don't think thats to bad.
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JBL PRX535 over x2 PRX718s mains.  PRX512m monitors.  Studiolive 24.4.2 console.

        http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ladd-Sound-Productions/1262500 32511?ref=nf

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2008, 11:06:49 pm »

Depending on how many cabinets you are going to build, it might be better to get a stack of 22 sheets.  You can get it around here ranging from $22-28/sheet (5x5) if you buy a stack.  And they will deliver it to you.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

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dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2008, 01:04:35 am »

Mario-

How many are you building?  Need to build some cases for yourself and a few friends?  You owe it to yourself to check out Allied Veneer.  Two years ago they quoted me something like $1400 for 2 stacks (44 sheets) of 13 ply 4x8, DELIVERED.  I think the price for 5x5 was only slightly less per s/f.

At any rate, I used their web form and a salesman called me to verify what I was interested in, etc.  He quoted a price on the phone and followed up with an email.  The project I was estimating didn't come through so I never ordered, but they were fast on the sale call, the price was good, and the sales staff friendly and knowledgeable.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2008, 01:11:55 pm »

Jim Bowersox wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 20:20

Mario,

I used standard Titebond III wood glue on mine.  The wood will break well before the glue joint will.  If your cuts aren't quite perfect, the Liquid Nails Polyurethane or the PL Premium adhesive will fill the gaps better.  I disagree with the West System being worth the (significant) cost and (significant) extra effort (Mixing, etc.)  I used Titebond III on all 12 of mine that I built, and I can assure you that they're quite solid!

As for finish, mine are finished with standard black semi-matte paint.  They get a new coat about once a year and I think the look can't be beaten!  The more beat up and repainted that they get, the better they look   Very Happy.  A touch up is as easy as a quick paintbrush job.  Keep in mind that Line-X or Rhino is expensive and WILL get chunks out of it with any serious use, that will require a trip back to the bedliner place to get repaired.  I don't think it's at all worth the extra expense in the long run.

Also, as with ANY finish, the quality of the job is in the prep.  It should take you far longer to prep your cabs for paint (Bondo, Sanding, Edge Routing, etc) than it will to actually paint them.  Said finishing also is crucial with a spray-on bedliner project, as it will show any flaw on the box.  

I have 4 casters on the back of mine, and 14ga. steel grilles on the front, soon to be foam backed.  IMO that's also worth the effort, to keep debris out of the boxes and maintain a classy appearance!

-JB



I use Franklin Titebond wherever there is a joint milled properly so that the pieces touch everywhere making for the maximum glued area.

For joints that are less then perfect Polyurethane is acceptable, but I prefer West System with the proper "filler" to bridge gaps.

The difference is with the proper filer the epoxy becomes a "Structure" not just a way to seal an air leak.

For an experiment use a mold and fill it with Polyurethane and then fill the mold with Epoxy and the "silica" additive.

The Polyurethane will not be anywhere near as stiff nor will it be able to carry near as much of a load before it deflects compared to epoxy and filler.

As for any "PL" products, from working in lumber yards I am very familiar with the professional construction adhesives that have been used for the last 30 years.
They are on one end and Butyl, silicone and other soft caulks are on the other end of the spectrum.
PL products are nice for pasting rough lumber, plywood or MDF together, but you won't see it much in cabinet work or boat work for that manner.

Construction adhesive and Polyurethane are a real bitch to get off your hands and impossible to get out of your clothes.
They are very "sticky" but they do not have the same characteristics as an epoxy and filler combination.

A major difference is that Polyurethane, PL construction adhesive and caulks must all stay pliable. If they completely "harden" they will fail. They are meant to work in situations where what they are bonding together will move over time because of change in weather or just that the wood is drying out over the years.

When you make a cabinet nothing should move very much. Titebond is not meant to work in those conditions.Itcompletly cures to a very hard and inflexible material and the same for expoxy. It completely cures to a structure that is harder then oak.

In the end a box with well fitted joints should use titebond where every you can clamp or nail the joint.
For places where you can not put any pressure or the joiner is poor Polyurethane looks like  decent choice, just not the best.

If you are not very good with woodworking use epoxy and filler.
Polyurethane is a good second choice.
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Mario Data

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2008, 09:04:08 pm »

Thanks for glue info Curtis.  I was wondering if anyone had put pole sockets on their labs, if so how and were?   The reason I ask is I'm thinking of upgrading to a vrx powered system for my tops and I think they would work good with 2 per side over one lab per side for the smaller shows I can't use a truss.  Thanks guys
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JBL PRX535 over x2 PRX718s mains.  PRX512m monitors.  Studiolive 24.4.2 console.

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peter.golde

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Re: Starting my Labs this fall. Any advise from the pros?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2008, 07:47:45 pm »

I used West System epoxy for my first batch of Labs, more work than it was worth and is very expensive. I agree for perfect joints tightbond is best. All of my speaker projects since the Labs with epoxy have been glued with PL Premium 100% polyurethane. All my boxes suffer the worst kinds abuses including falling out of a truck on the highway, and none have failed, no leaks, no joint failures. PL is nice because it gives a first time builder enough time to unscrew and pull apart and redo mistakes, tightbond doesn't afford this luxury. PL with screws and clamps, the extra will squeeze out and imperfections will be sealed. If you don't have to rebuild wood with epoxy, PL is the best choice. Use a pair of rubber gloves to avoid getting it on your skin.
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"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer" - Frank Zappa
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