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Author Topic: SB my xy on experience  (Read 48355 times)

Alfred_Mapanao

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2008, 11:40:37 am »

index.php/fa/17754/0/


Is it me, or is that right hang positioned too far to the right hiding behind that support tower.
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2008, 11:46:05 am »

Tom Manchester wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:27

Look at the box... It's one of the largest 2" drivers around on a short / small horn running down to 600hz (and supposedly there are options to run it lower). How well can it be expected to load down there? Who knows but the designer?, I can only speculate that it is not all that well.

Then you couple that with 2 8" drivers in something called "horn loading" and expect them to run with a driver rated to the high 140db's. It's no wonder that the rig sounded "thin." I can't fathom that while Tom Danley needs to load more MF and LF drivers in fairly  large horn to get it to keep up properly, that Sound Bridge has found a way to place drivers at odd baffle angles in a nearly front loaded configuration and attain the output needed to keep up with a large 2" driver. In my limited experience I have not found boxes with small LF drivers to perform well at the lower end of their bandpass to, regardless of horn loading. The Community SLS920 loads it's 8" LF drivers on what I would consider to be more of a "true" horn and even they are only good down to 120-150hz when you have multiples of boxes for LF summing.

Perhaps with all the trademarks™ soundbridge
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Tom Manchester

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2008, 11:59:02 am »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:46

 If everyone thinks it's such a bad design, why don't you design something better since you know so much?


Because better designs made by smarter people already exist and I can just go and buy one.
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-Tom
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2008, 12:08:34 pm »

Tom Manchester wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:59

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:46

 If everyone thinks it's such a bad design, why don't you design something better since you know so much?


Because better designs made by smarter people already exist and I can just go and buy one.


You don't know how good of a design this rig is, you are going based on comments people made based on a picture I posted of the horn. I'm sure we can all determine the performance of a speaker by looking at it.

Few here have heard the Soundbridge rig, and they have a right to comment on the performance. People that haven't heard it can't.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2008, 12:13:00 pm »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:08

Tom Manchester wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:59

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:46

 If everyone thinks it's such a bad design, why don't you design something better since you know so much?


Because better designs made by smarter people already exist and I can just go and buy one.


You don't know how good of a design this rig is, you are going based on comments people made based on a picture I posted of the horn. I'm sure we can all determine the performance of a speaker by looking at it.

That's an interesting observation from someone who has just made a series of judgements about speakers by reading Internet opinions about them.

Mac
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2008, 12:14:12 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:13

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:08

Tom Manchester wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:59

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:46

 If everyone thinks it's such a bad design, why don't you design something better since you know so much?


Because better designs made by smarter people already exist and I can just go and buy one.


You don't know how good of a design this rig is, you are going based on comments people made based on a picture I posted of the horn. I'm sure we can all determine the performance of a speaker by looking at it.

That's an interesting observation from someone who has just made a series of judgements about speakers by reading Internet opinions about them.

Mac


Mac, go check my post there. Sound quality comparison wasn't even part of what I was trying to say.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2008, 12:19:08 pm »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:46


No one here has mentioned that you NEED all that extra HF output to recover from air losses for long distances. And I'll mention that the HF only outruns the LF by about 6dB on this rig, which isn't much.

Everyone here is insulting the design, when no one here, even me, has ANY IDEA how it works. No one here, except Tom Danley, has enough acoustics/physics/EE/ME knowledge to insult anything. If everyone thinks it's such a bad design, why don't you design something better since you know so much?

The need for HF boost to compensate for air loss over distance is best addressed at the drive side of this equasation.

As for designing something better... I submit that there are several valid designs from others, and consequently I don't need to design vertical arrays (and I'm NOT competent to do so, anyway).

I'm happy that you're happy, Silas.  But I think you're reaching the end of the tree limb on this one... unless it was YOUR rig Evan didn't like.  Even if it was, his observations are as valid as anyone else's (FWIW).  He deemed the rig provided for his Artist's use to be unsuitable, and that is that.  No amount of wishing will change that, and your attempts to do so make you look foolish.

I'd be interested in knowing which 6 Flags property this was...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2008, 12:23:22 pm »

Alfred Mapanao wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 11:40




Is it me, or is that right hang positioned too far to the right hiding behind that support tower.


It's just the angle of the picture. Both hangs were equal distance from the stage.


Richard Rajchel wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 1:00


Without you being the engineer that actually setup this rig and had been able to test out all the drivers, amps, and DSP settings it's pretty harsh to make broad judgments about just the speakers. Like someone mentioned earlier...maybe half of the boxes were blown, or out of phase, or amps setup wrong, not aimed properly, etc...


It's an installed rig, so I really hope that everything is in phase and setup correctly. Blown drivers? Maybe. It wouldnt surprise me if some 8's were blown, since they're so inefficient compared to the horns...


Richard Rajchel wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 1:00


I would think you could hang 12 of just about anything per side and get usable sound as long as they are properly powered, processed, and pointing relatively close to where they should be.


Sure! I got a usable sound out of the boxes. But was it good? No way. No matter how much EQ was used, I just couldnt get the boxes to smooth out without going to complete shit. Every box that Ive ever mixed on that has a compression driver loaded mid range just is harsh. Cone mid drivers sound better. And a 2" horn trying to cover most of the bandwidth on a short horn just isnt happening! I dont care what marketing koolaid you drink, it just wont happen...


Richard Rajchel wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 1:00


It could be they were using a digital snake and the run was too long, or any number of crazy possibilities(someone spilled a drink on the console at the previous show that board did, etc....).


Hmm, too bad it was an analog snake, and the console was hired in just for this show. And, I really dont think a PM5D would work too well after a drink was spilled in it... Smile

Hell, the FOH dude hired for the show even commented on how bad the rig sounded with music playback.



Evan
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Mac Kerr

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Huh?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2008, 12:25:56 pm »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:14

Mac, go check my post there. Sound quality comparison wasn't even part of what I was trying to say.

I thought this is what you said:
Silas Pradetto wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 21:29

Real technology is designing something that doesn't need all the advanced DSP to sound good. Chances are, something that sounds good naturally sounds better than something that is artificially made to sound good.


Silas Pradetto wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 22:13

The Danley stuff is amazing compared to throwing a couple drivers in a box and expecting it to work, then fixing it 20 years later with ridiculous DSP power.


Silas Pradetto wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 23:16

My point was that the Danley stuff sounds great out of the box, completely passive, with probably no EQ. This saves DSP money, EQ money, and money on amp channels. The 650's sound like crap till you get the 8800 on it, and they still need to be triamped. I heard a 650 rig with the old analog 4 way processor...it wasn't pretty.

I'm pretty sure that has to do with sound quality comparisons.

Mac
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: Soundbridge XYON, my experience
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2008, 12:28:56 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:19

Silas Pradetto wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:46


No one here has mentioned that you NEED all that extra HF output to recover from air losses for long distances. And I'll mention that the HF only outruns the LF by about 6dB on this rig, which isn't much.

Everyone here is insulting the design, when no one here, even me, has ANY IDEA how it works. No one here, except Tom Danley, has enough acoustics/physics/EE/ME knowledge to insult anything. If everyone thinks it's such a bad design, why don't you design something better since you know so much?

The need for HF boost to compensate for air loss over distance is best addressed at the drive side of this equasation.

As for designing something better... I submit that there are several valid designs from others, and consequently I don't need to design vertical arrays (and I'm NOT competent to do so, anyway).

I'm happy that you're happy, Silas.  But I think you're reaching the end of the tree limb on this one... unless it was YOUR rig Evan didn't like.  Even if it was, his observations are as valid as anyone else's (FWIW).  He deemed the rig provided for his Artist's use to be unsuitable, and that is that.  No amount of wishing will change that, and your attempts to do so make you look foolish.

I'd be interested in knowing which 6 Flags property this was...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc


I'm pretty sure I haven't disagreed with what Evan heard. I have only said that I know the rig can perform better than he heard, and that there was probably some misdeployment with that one.

I clearly stated that anyone that has actually heard the rig has a right to their opinion of what they heard.

I do severely contest people with opinions of speaker performance that are derived from pictures. Like "that horn looks too small, it has to be unsuitable, etc etc etc". I might respect the opinion slightly if the person had a remote semblance of acoustic engineering experience, but the people that are making these comments are barely out of high school and know nothing of any engineering.
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