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Author Topic: Center hung system in gym  (Read 5069 times)

Josh Hoevelmann

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Center hung system in gym
« on: August 15, 2008, 03:32:17 pm »

There is a large gym(11,000) seats, yet it is very intimate.  The idea proposed is a center hung system of speakers.  There would be a center hung octagon shaped truss on motors with about a 30ft span to any side.  Speakers would be hung on their respective side facing that side with a sub on each side as well.  

With the backs of that many speakers facing each other, are their potential problems with frequencies interfering?  At first I thought their would be but then I realized there are "in the round"  concerts that pull it off all the time.  there is acoustical baffeling in the ceiling?

Any info would help

Thanks
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 05:18:59 pm »

The biggest problem with a setup like that is the fact that you are going to be energizing a  lot of area where there are no people.

I like to do gyms where you put the loudspeakers closer to the people so the intelligability is much higher.  Of course this costs a good bit more-but also works much better.  You also do not need as much "horsepower" from each loudspeaker because of the distance decrease.

An exploded mono rig if you will.
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Caleb Dick

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2008, 11:20:35 pm »

I would be worried about the LF interference.  From box to box, assuming one per side of the octagon, and possible cancellations from box/ceiling interaction.  Maybe some sort of super- or hyper-cardioid setups (there goes the budget!).  

Should be obvious, but excellent acoustical treatment gets a big vote from me.  

Caleb
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Tom Young

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2008, 08:18:54 am »

Not sure if I interpretted this right or not:

How was the octagon with 8 loudspeakers with subs determined to be appropriate, coverage-wise ?

This is way over kill.

Was it "designed" by an architect or the art teacher ?
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Tom Young
Electroacoustic Design Services
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Josh Hoevelmann

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 02:56:15 pm »

The positioning of the speakers was determined based on sight lines to video boards, point of reference and minimizing number of cabinets needed.  Also trying to stay out of outside events fly space.

The ceiling is acoustically treated.  this rig plus the acoustical treatment sits about 20ft below the actual roof with the actual ceiling beams that shows and anything else if flown from.

Also, it is worth noting this is the current location of the speakers now.  Just with a bad coverage pattern for the space.  When in the coverage pattern it sounds pretty good.  No specific frequencies sound excited by the current arrangement.
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Sam York

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 03:12:47 pm »

Josh Hoevelmann wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 19:56

The positioning of the speakers was determined based on sight lines to video boards, point of reference and minimizing number of cabinets needed.  Also trying to stay out of outside events fly space.



So, everything was considered apart from whether the audience will be able to hear what's coming out of the speakers?  Laughing
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Brad Weber

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 04:50:23 pm »

Josh Hoevelmann wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 14:56

The positioning of the speakers was determined based on sight lines to video boards, point of reference and minimizing number of cabinets needed.  Also trying to stay out of outside events fly space.

So no consideration was given for the resulting performance of the audio system?  I would think that the audio system designer would be modeling the system for that type of application and size of room and that should show any resulting interference.

You mentioned the room seats 11,000 and the ceiling is 20' above the rigging, but can you tell us anything else about the project like the shape and overall size of the room or what the sound system is used for or any specific performance requirements?
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video

Josh Hoevelmann

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 09:13:06 am »

It's very difficult to convince an athletic department and graduation committee that it would be better to hang the speakers somewhere else when they've been in the same spot(not same speakers)since 1972.  With the recent addition of video boards, that has become a concern, dealing with sight line issues.  To the graduation committee, the current system is just fine and athletics wants more "punch" or "impact."

These are the two main things the system would be used for.  For seating 11,000 it is very compact.  The speakers would be hung no higher than 45 ft above court.  The very farthest seat is only about 120 ft from court side(measured diagnaly....the very top set of bleachers would be covered by a delay ring.   Well, here's a picture.

index.php/fa/17485/0/

This is from 2004, so the center hung scoreboard is not there but the speakers just above it are.  There are two video/scoreboards at each end, one where the American flag is and directly opposite of there.  This picture makes it look huge but it's not!
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Josh Hoevelmann

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 09:23:58 am »

Here's another pic.   Again it's old and blury but you can see the current speaker set up.  I don't have problems with the quality of audio just the coverage.

index.php/fa/17486/0/
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Jason Lavoie

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Re: Center hung system in gym
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 10:20:46 am »

Josh Hoevelmann wrote on Tue, 19 August 2008 09:13

It's very difficult to convince an athletic department and graduation committee that it would be better to hang the speakers somewhere else when they've been in the same spot(not same speakers)since 1972.



ask them what their car looked like back in 72?
what did their "home theatre" look like back in 72?
so much has changed since then, that it deserves a fresh re-design just out of principle to make sure you're not missing out.

that long ago, the only way to get enough volume was probably with horns, which would have projected nicely, but with less frequency range. today you're trying to use completely different technology and the approach needs to change.


Quote:

 With the recent addition of video boards, that has become a concern, dealing with sight line issues.  To the graduation committee, the current system is just fine and athletics wants more "punch" or "impact."


so, graduation committee needs it once, maybe twice per year, and athletics needs it how many times??
this is no contest who should be driving the cart here. as long as it doesn't negatively impact graduations

Jason
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