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Author Topic: Wireless Lapel Issues  (Read 1541 times)

phizzle

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Wireless Lapel Issues
« on: February 21, 2005, 06:42:29 pm »

We currently use 6 AT (UHF) wireless (fixed freq.) systems along with many other wired mics.  The pastor uses a countryman headmic with great results, same w/ the handheld vocals (wired and wireless), but if I try to use a lapel (omni or uni) I get awful flutter/echo especially when they are in front of the pulpit (which is a big duh-huh since it has a large acrylic top that slants back), that aside, what is the reason for the flutter/echo with the lapels even when not behind the pulpit (Which, just for reference, does not have a mic.)?  I can usually EQ it out (on the mixer) pretty much removing the mid-freq., but that's not very conducive to good vocal speech.  So...any ideas?
Info:
Mixer - Mackie SR32-4 (no comments pls. Wink)
EQ - Sabine 2 channel w/ FBX and Comp.
Behringer DriveRack
3pc. center cluster w/ 2-15" subs under stage.


Thanks,
Philip
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Tom Young

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Re: Wireless Lapel Issues
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2005, 08:26:55 pm »

First of all, flutter echo is continuing echo regeneration between parallel surfaces.  What you are experiencing is just plain echo.

The sources could be:
reflection off the pulpit
the energy from a stage monitor wedge
slap-back from the back wall of the santuary
other open mic's that pick up the pastors voice

You say you get the echo even when the pastor is not at the pulpit, so that appears not to be the problem.  You also say there is no mic at the pulpit.

If you do provide monitors for the pastor while he is on lavalier, this is a BIG mistake.  Unfortunately...... I know all too well that somewhere some pastors get the idea that: 1) they need this and 2) they can have it. In order for the wedge(s) to be heard the acoustic energy from the monitor(s) must be at equal or greater level than the pastor's unreinforced voice. This is the same as it would be for a singer except the singer uses a handheld cardioid mic with the monitor pointed up into the null point of the mic's covergae pattern and with the singer "eating" the mic. The reality is that the pastor does not need a monitor when he preaches or speaks.  I have won this battle time and again but often it takes considerable time and hand-holding to win it.

If the problem is slap back from the rear wall, you either acoustically treat it or you see if the FOH ldspkrs can be re-aimed so that they project down onto the congregation and therefore any over-coverage gets "grounded" into the seats.

Finally, if you feed the pastor into choir monitors and the choir mic's are left on..... well, I doubt this is the problem.

Let me know if any of this helps.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
Email: dbspl@earthlink.net
www.dbspl.com

phizzle

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Re: Wireless Lapel Issues
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2005, 05:01:21 am »

Thanks for the reply.  I do not put plain speech (just singing vocals and music) in the monitors.  I also mute all channels when someone is speaking.  The aiming of the speakers seems like the most feasible culprit...although the most difficult to fix.  The walls are parallel in respect to the two side speakers in the cluster, they are aimed at the same level.  The center one is aimed slightly lower (this is to compensate for the balcony).  Is it possible that the area under the balcony or the balcony itself is causing the echo?

Thanks again!
Philip
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Tom Young

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Re: Wireless Lapel Issues
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2005, 07:22:57 am »

"Is it possible that the area under the balcony or the balcony itself is causing the echo?"

Yes to both. But each would have to have exposed wall surface to cause reflections.  Plus thwe ldspkrs have to be aimed almost directly at them.

If the balcony face is 3' (or more) high and is flat, this could result in an audible echo.  If it is curved inwards this has an additional focusing effect.

If this is caused by the FOH ldspkrs, re-focusing may be the best course but you must do it in a manner that does not reduce coverage to target seats.  

The other choice is to apply absorption or diffusion to the suspect surface.

You should be able to conduct listening tests to tell exactly where the echo comes from.  Use a thick fabric and place it on the suspct surface.  This could even be 2-dozen winter coats.  If there is an echo from that surface it should be attenuated by the fabric enough to hear a difference.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
Email: dbspl@earthlink.net
www.dbspl.com

phizzle

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Re: Wireless Lapel Issues
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2005, 09:53:17 am »

Ok Thanks.
The Balcony is approx. 3' or so with an additional 1' of glass on top.  Also, it is flat as you said.  The center FOH speaker is aimed pretty far down, but the other 2 on the sides do, however, aim at the balcony.  Would you suggest they be aimed up toward the back wall (approx. 60' from the speakers) or more down similar to the center speaker?

Thanks again for the help...I will also test the different surfaces to see where the problem is occuring.  

Philip
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Tom Young

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Re: Wireless Lapel Issues
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2005, 10:01:00 am »

3' of balcony plus glass is most definitley not a good thing.

Assuming that there are ldspkrs which project sound onto the balcony face & glass AND at an angle which reflects back onto the platform..... how you re-aim them depends on what they need to cover as far as seating.

This is no simple matter.

You can either send digital photos or a scaled sketch and I can guide you.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
Email: dbspl@earthlink.net
www.dbspl.com

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Re: Wireless Lapel Issues
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2005, 10:01:00 am »


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