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Author Topic: Heil PR-22  (Read 50723 times)

Lee Brenkman

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2008, 08:04:43 pm »

Mark Hadman wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 13:11

Jah Wobble's Chinese Dub project was in town recently. As H.E. I had my new PR-22 with me, and the B.E. was happy to give it a spin because he'd heard good things.

For sound check we set up the PR-22 and a Beta 57a at the center vocal position and let vocalist Claire have the option of using either one. After switching back and forth a few times, the B.E. and I agreed that the 22 had the edge in terms of clarity, but Claire thought that the B57a sounded clearer through the monitors and so we moved the 22 aside for Jah Wobble to use. In the 22's defence, the monitors were more or less EQ'd to sound good with a Shure, and Claire, like most singers, has been using Shures for years.

Later on in the same sound check it became apparent that the 22 was amplifying large amounts of rumble from people moving around on the stage, and since dancing was a central part of the show we reluctantly swapped the 22 out for another B57a. Having briefly A/B'd the two mics myself at home I have to say that the 22 does seem to have quite a lot of handling noise compared to a B57a. I intend to make a more scientific comparison next time I have a mixer and recorder set up and a spare half hour.

On a more positive note, as a B.E. myself I've taken to using the 22 as a backing vocal mic for our drummer*. With an SM58 or similar his voice requires a deep cut at 200Hz (he always asks for that cut in his monitors too), but I can run the 22 more or less flat, with maybe a little cut at 5K so as to not stand out too much from the front-line SM58s! This is a guy who's so sociable that he's generally lost most of his voice by the second day of a festival weekend, so having that clarity is important. The next step may be to try pointing the 22 somewhat downwards, allowing it double up as the drum overhead mic.

More to follow.


* Re my previous post - we've also tried it on snare top as suggested and it was fine and snappy, although for that particular gig I was mixing from backstage (yep you heard right) so didn't get much chance to appreciate the finer details.


Ah yes, Jah Wobble, the only bassist in my experience to vibrate the screws that hold the XLR connector COMPLETELY out of the box from the "vibes:" on top of his amp.   I put the box on the floor the next set.

Your idea of using the drummer's vocal mic as an "alternative" overhead is a sound one.  I've done it on more than one occasion and I'll bet the Heil sounds better for it than a Shure due to that same off axis pickup pattern that makes it a problem elsewhere on stage.

And my sympathies for having to mix from behind the stage.  Been there, done that, and it always sucks.   It sucked even more at the venue where the only way to go out front to check the mix was to walk ACROSS the stage and into the audience.  

Cheers,
Lee
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2008, 11:46:42 pm »

Mark Hadman wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 15:11

......This is a guy who's so sociable that he's generally lost most of his voice by the second day of a festival weekend, so having that clarity is important.


Sounds like the boy needs to keep a case of Entertainer's Secret on the bus.  http://www.entertainerssecret.com/  (It's also great for those who suffer from post-nasal drip - a couple snorts of it and after 15 very fluid minutes my throat is clear for hours.)

Bob Leonard

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2008, 12:10:10 am »

Dave Dermont wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 15:29

Bob Leonard wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 09:45

I replaced a 57 on a Vibrolux with on of the retrofits. It's night and day, and sounds like a whole new amp.


Geeze, with your head so far up Bob Heil's ass, it's a wonder you can still hear ANYTHING.  Rolling Eyes

Bob, you know I say that with love.

...but seriously folks (for you youngsters, this is a Joe Walsh reference)

It pretty amazing how fast the Heil folks have responded to the marketplace.

DD


Dave / Andy,
I have been keeping Bob up to date with the concerns of the masses, and I can assure you he listens to what you have to say. Oh, by the way, if there's anything else on the wish list let me know before Friday. He's meeting me for dinner Friday night, so I'll pass it along then. Laughing


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Lee Brenkman

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2008, 01:53:12 am »

Just tell him that it would be nice if the clips for the 35 held the microphones a little tighter.

Andy reports that the Handi-Mic clips are on the loose side as well.


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John Chiara

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2008, 02:08:02 am »

Bob Leonard wrote on Thu, 21 August 2008 00:10

Dave Dermont wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 15:29

Bob Leonard wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 09:45

I replaced a 57 on a Vibrolux with on of the retrofits. It's night and day, and sounds like a whole new amp.


Geeze, with your head so far up Bob Heil's ass, it's a wonder you can still hear ANYTHING.  Rolling Eyes

Bob, you know I say that with love.

...but seriously folks (for you youngsters, this is a Joe Walsh reference)

It pretty amazing how fast the Heil folks have responded to the marketplace.

DD


Dave / Andy,
I have been keeping Bob up to date with the concerns of the masses, and I can assure you he listens to what you have to say. Oh, by the way, if there's anything else on the wish list let me know before Friday. He's meeting me for dinner Friday night, so I'll pass it along then. Laughing




He called me today..just to check in..pretty cool.
JOhn
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John A. Chiara aka. Blind Johnny
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Andy Peters

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2008, 03:00:54 am »

Bob Leonard wrote on Wed, 20 August 2008 21:10

Oh, by the way, if there's anything else on the wish list let me know before Friday. He's meeting me for dinner Friday night, so I'll pass it along then. Laughing


Supercardioid PR-25.

Supercardioid PR-25.

And a Supercardioid PR-25.

Oh, yeah, while the leather cases that the PR-22 shipped in are really nice, they're sitting on a shelf and the mics live in the mic box with their EV, Audix and Shure brethren. I'd rather not spend the extra ten or fifteen bucks on the leather.

-a
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2008, 10:06:58 am »

Not pay extra for leather?  What if there were a Telefunken U-47 involved? Laughing

Tim Mc
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John Chiara

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2008, 02:22:52 am »

Well, tonight was enlightening. Louder band from Australia..quieter EMO singer..PR 35 on the center vocal..PR22's on SL and SR. The 35 turned into basically a ride cymbal mic..sooo much drum bleed it was not good. Wish I had put up a B57 or OM5 or something else to try it. For quieter stages the mics are really stellar..but as others have said...the wash tonight was unusable.
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"mix is a verb, not a noun" Sooo, as Aunt Bea would say.."Get to it!!!"

John A. Chiara aka. Blind Johnny
Albany Audio Associates Inc.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2008, 06:02:38 pm »

Just a quick point. There are 50 touring acts using the Heils now representing all types of genre, from Joan Baez to the Eagles. There aren't any complaints about wash, or if there are I have not heard about them yet. I wonder what they're using as a formula for success..... Guess I'll have to find out tonight.

My first thought, having tested most of the mics mentioned against the Heils, proved to me the Heils are more sensitive, more articulate, and have a much wider frequency response than the mics mentioned. You're definitely going to hear sound you have not heard in the past.

Have you thought to stop and ask yourself why the GBF of the Heils is greater than other mics, then looked at how much hotter the input of the Heils can get vs. the input of those other mics? Increase the sensitivity and you hear more surrounding sound. Decrease the channel strip gain just a bit, to where the other mics start to feed back, and most the wash goes away. You can then increase the channel output and still outperform the other mics.
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Andy Peters

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Re: Heil PR-22
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2008, 06:49:05 pm »

Bob Leonard wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 15:02

Just a quick point. There are 50 touring acts using the Heils now representing all types of genre, from Joan Baez to the Eagles. There aren't any complaints about wash, or if there are I have not heard about them yet. I wonder what they're using as a formula for success..... Guess I'll have to find out tonight.


Umm, well, for starters ... could the formula simply be that lots of these bands are on IEMs, or have plexi shields in front of the drums, or the amps are "far enough" from the vocal position to not be a problem? IOW, strictly-controlled stage volume? I don't expect Joan Baez to have rock-n-roll stage volumes.

Quote:

My first thought, having tested most of the mics mentioned against the Heils, proved to me the Heils are more sensitive, more articulate, and have a much wider frequency response than the mics mentioned. You're definitely going to hear sound you have not heard in the past.


And all of that is true ... re-read my initia post in this thread where I mention that my wife said "that one (PR22) sounds like you, and the other one (SM58) sounds like you're speaking through a microphone."

Quote:

Have you thought to stop and ask yourself why the GBF of the Heils is greater than other mics,


IT IS NOT.

NO EFFIN' WAY.

Let me clarify: I can get usable GBF.  But GBF is a separate issue from stage wash. So when a musician tells me, "I'm getting a lot of stage sound in my wedge and it just sounds loud up here," that's a problem. And when I push up a vocal in the house and get lots of guitar amp as a bonus, that's a problem.

So I'd rather deal with the "sonic imperfections" of a supercardioid mic.

-a

(edit: clarification.)
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"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
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