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Author Topic: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks  (Read 39554 times)

Chris Buford

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2008, 04:49:30 pm »

Patrick Tracy wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 13:03

 The ideal would be digital with analog style interface.

And I can look at the rack and see all the gain reduction meters at a glance.

What I mix on is a personal choice, like the guitars I play. My gear suits my needs and the kinds of jobs I do. It's analogous to the choice between using an electronic piano versus a real piano. Obviously, way more performances are done on electronic pianos compared to grand pianos because they are just more practical, easier to move, stay in tune, you can change its sound from a grand to a out of tune honky tonk to a tack piano with a button, but for a significant minority a real piano is the only real choice.


well that holds true in the all digital world too. An Yamaha LS9 isn't a DigiDesign Venue. With the D-Show control surface you have a ton of information about each channel displayed, two switchable encoder knobs per channel (you could leave one as your pan while you could cycle the other through aux sends), etc etc, I could go on. The LS9 is a totally capable desk too in the right situation. If your doing track acts w/5 wireless mics and a cd player, you don't need a Venue system either. But an LS9-16 sure would have been better and more convenient than the 40ch RAMSA and rack of outboard graphs I had to lug in and patch. And I had no comps!

As they say, use the right tool for the job when you can. Sometimes you just can't get the right tools though. An O2R with some crappy external pre's wouldnt be my ideal digital situation to. Of course I chose an M7CL over a APB Spectra and outboard because I could setup the desk offline earlier (knowing I didn't have alot of soundcheck time) and I knew the gig honestly just didn't justify it.
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David Karol

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2008, 05:02:38 pm »

I just went with an analog Spectra T for theater.  The sound quality is unmatched by other consoles, both analog and digital, in its price range.  We don't have a huge budget, and doing a renovation to our main-stage sound system will probably cost us our budget for the next few years.  Therefor, it's important that this console lasts us for many.  With a digital console, it would probably be obsolete, if not damaged by the heat, within a few years.  Our location is in a semi-outdoor theater in Hancock, NY.  In the summer, the temperature at the mix position gets over 120 degrees.  In my opinion, that's a no-no for digital.

Mac Kerr

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2008, 05:31:52 pm »

David Karol wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 17:02

With a digital console, it would probably be obsolete, if not damaged by the heat, within a few years.  Our location is in a semi-outdoor theater in Hancock, NY.  In the summer, the temperature at the mix position gets over 120 degrees.  In my opinion, that's a no-no for digital.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. What makes you think a console can be "obsolete"? Does it stop doing all things you bought if for in the first place? Or do you really mean that your needs will have changed, and what once worked for you is no longer enough? How is analog any less prone to your needs changing? Heat is the enemy of all electronics. Keeping things cool is going to matter whether the console is digital or analog.

Mac
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David A. Parker

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2008, 06:09:27 pm »

I saw a multi-band country music event in Houston recently(national level bands), and it appeared that several of the bands brought their own digital mixer. Each band used a different mixer, and most packed theirs and left after they played. Digital mixers offer a total package, everything you need in one package, and a package of a size that you can take with you. That would save a lot on setup time and give the mix guy the same setup every gig. You couldn't do that with analog, all the outboard gear makes the package too large.
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David Parker
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David A. Parker

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2008, 06:11:22 pm »

yamaha LS9 is rated at 140 degrees. Mine lives in an enclosed trailer, and it gets over 100 degrees here in the summer.
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David Parker
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Chris Buford

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2008, 06:17:00 pm »

David Karol wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 16:02

 In the summer, the temperature at the mix position gets over 120 degrees.  In my opinion, that's a no-no for digital.



heh, in my opinion thats a no-no for a human being! Very Happy I certainly couldn't take that mixing.
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2008, 06:19:11 pm »

David Karol wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 14:02

Our location is in a semi-outdoor theater in Hancock, NY.  In the summer, the temperature at the mix position gets over 120 degrees.  In my opinion, that's a no-no for digital.



If you are getting to 120 degrees at mix position in New York then I must be 150 degrees at mix position here in Phoenix!  Last year our hottest event was 116 drgees and the second hottest was 114.  The latter had over 40 people drom from the heat and two different cities sent their fire departments to deal with the emergencies!

I can tell you from experience that people drop from the heat long before any mixing console that I have been on so far.  Out here there are some providers that do have to put big fans in front of their power supplies for their analog console to keep them cool.
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David A. Parker

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2008, 06:19:47 pm »

OSHA has requirements that come into play if the temp. gets above 93 degrees. Most of us don't mix in an environment overseen by OSHA, but the heat concerns are the same.
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David Parker
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David Karol

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2008, 06:56:36 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 17:31

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. What makes you think a console can be "obsolete"? Does it stop doing all things you bought if for in the first place? Or do you really mean that your needs will have changed, and what once worked for you is no longer enough? How is analog any less prone to your needs changing? Heat is the enemy of all electronics. Keeping things cool is going to matter whether the console is digital or analog.

Mac




Mac,

I've mixed on a few digital consoles, and I'm not saying that I'm against them.  In fact, I'm very happy with a lot of them.  If we had a greater budget, we might've gone down that road.  I'm just talking about our particular situation.  Generally, a console purchased to accomplish certain tasks doesn't stop doing them 10 years down the line, but at that time will you want to buy that console?  I'd consider a 10 year old analog board, but I definitely wouldn't look at a digital console of that age.  There's no doubt that our needs will change. APB makes an expander for the Spectra, just like many manufacturers of digital consoles do.  Running out of channels isn't my concern.  With a digital console, I'm stuck with all of the stock software and signal processing.  If I had the budget for something a bit higher scale, I might've purchased a digital console with much better processing than what's in digital products in my price range.  Now, I can switch any of my outboard gear.  All that takes is a few screws, and a bit of re-patching.

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 18:19


If you are getting to 120 degrees at mix position in New York then I must be 150 degrees at mix position here in Phoenix!  Last year our hottest event was 116 drgees and the second hottest was 114.  The latter had over 40 people drom from the heat and two different cities sent their fire departments to deal with the emergencies!

I can tell you from experience that people drop from the heat long before any mixing console that I have been on so far.  Out here there are some providers that do have to put big fans in front of their power supplies for their analog console to keep them cool.


There isn't proper ventilation in the room.  It will be installed at some point, but that might take a while.  We leave a little thermometer up there, last week it hit 110.  Confused

Evan Kirkendall

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2008, 10:36:54 pm »

David A. Parker wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 18:09

I saw a multi-band country music event in Houston recently(national level bands), and it appeared that several of the bands brought their own digital mixer. Each band used a different mixer, and most packed theirs and left after they played. Digital mixers offer a total package, everything you need in one package, and a package of a size that you can take with you. That would save a lot on setup time and give the mix guy the same setup every gig. You couldn't do that with analog, all the outboard gear makes the package too large.



One of the greatest benefits of a digital board IMO. Touring acts can save different venues on their board and recall them in the future when they play their again. Plus, its compact and you can often times put your FOH in a better position then the FOH provided.

Im hoping to be traveling with an M7 for the fall. Smile




Evan
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