ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 15   Go Down

Author Topic: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks  (Read 39537 times)

Jordan Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1889
    • http://www.facebook.com/howlingwolf487
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2008, 12:53:37 am »

I have become increasingly concerned about a situation just like this.  I have never had the opportunity to work on any digital console, which will lead to problems in the future.

I love analog...consoles, outboard, whatever...it's great, so long as you know how to use it.  I look at digital as another thing to learn and master (another frontier, if you will).

There are times to embrace the advances in technology and other times when it is good to stick with what you know works and know how to work.  I know at least for me, the time has come to begin embracing that technology - for you (Mark), that time might not be here yet.

I think I might go to the local GC/Sam Ash with my 7506's and see if there are any 01V96's to mess around with for a while.  Let the discovery begin!
Logged
Wolf
<><

"A lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
- Me

"With that much comb filtering you could probably part your hair just by walking through the room." - Dick Rees

Rick Stansby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2401
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2008, 03:19:35 am »

bruce reiter wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 20:39

Mark Hadman wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 19:26



Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid of technology,
But it was an absolutely ridiculous gig the other day - small festy, two minutes changeover, the last thing I needed was to see an O2R/96 at FOH, accompanied by an HE who couldn't (or wouldn't) set up a tap tempo delay on a soft key for me and, it turned out a few minutes in, hadn't actually got any FX returns routed anywhere anyway, and the vocals were distorted to hell because there weren't enough pres on the desk so they were using an overcooked B*******r A/D unit hidden away in a rack along with a couple of inexplicable B******r digiEQs ...

...


hi mark,

it is your responsibility to know how to operate the equipment. read the manual and figure out for yourself how to use the soft key function or whatever.
ignorance is no excuse.

best,

bruce


No that is actually the job of the house engineer.  It doesn't sound like Mark requested the 02R (which btw is not at all common in live sound).  A true engineer should be able to mix a show on any digital board - as long as he has the support of a system engineer who knows all the details of the entire system.

Logged
Rick

Toby Mills

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 801
    • http://www.np.co.nz
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2008, 07:08:35 am »

2 years ago I would agree.
Now I wouldn't mix rock n roll on anything but digital.

I find the new digi consoles quicker, more predictable and less hassle than analog.
Logged
noise productions ltd
www.np.co.nz
"can you please turn down the shit knob"

Jamie Taylor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2008, 07:32:25 am »

I'm agreeing with everyone here.

I mostly do two gigs: Large Corporate, and Theatre.

For Corporate work, I'm usually on an M7, and the abillity to just whack an extra graphic where I want it is second to none.  It's a really easy console to work, and guest engineers that have never touched a digital console find it easy to work around.

Again, if you've never used a digi console before, they can be hard.

That being said, for a full-blown 'rock and roll' gig, give me  a Series 5 with DS201's and 160s and I'll be a happy kid Very Happy
Logged
Australian Event Productions

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


<a href="http://www.australianeventproductions.com" target="_blank">AEP.com</a>


Asian Representatives for <a href="http://www.adraudio.com" target="_blank"> ADRaudio Loudspeakers</a>

David A. Parker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1358
    • http://www.lostandfoundsoundco.com/
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2008, 08:37:55 am »

I have a very small and inexpensive battery backup powering my LS9. I can unplug everything else and the LS9 is still on. The battery backup will run the mixer for at least 15 minutes, probably a lot longer. Cost about $60.
Logged
David Parker
Lost and Found Sound
http://www.lostandfoundsoundco.com/

David A. Parker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1358
    • http://www.lostandfoundsoundco.com/
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2008, 08:41:34 am »

similar case of overkill killing a performance, a singer was touring churches, she sang and her husband mixed. He brought in a 12 channel tape recorder (this was years ago) with her backing tracks in 12 tracks, and mixed her tracks (like he was mixing a band) while she sang. Would have been much better to just bring the two track masters of the tracks.
Logged
David Parker
Lost and Found Sound
http://www.lostandfoundsoundco.com/

Mark Hadman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 112
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2008, 09:23:36 am »

Rick Stansby wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 08:19

bruce reiter wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 20:39


hi mark,

it is your responsibility to know how to operate the equipment. read the manual and figure out for yourself how to use the soft key function or whatever.
ignorance is no excuse.

best,

bruce


No that is actually the job of the house engineer.  It doesn't sound like Mark requested the 02R (which btw is not at all common in live sound).  A true engineer should be able to mix a show on any digital board - as long as he has the support of a system engineer who knows all the details of the entire system.




hmm, presumably I should also get to know how to program every digital FX unit in service anywhere in the world just to save HEs everywhere the bother. It's not like I never used an O2R or an O1V before and yes I have RTFM, back when these things were new. But they come up so very rarely...

During the gig is not the time to be scratching my head thinking that this button or that button might take me into the right screen to route this input to that output or assign this parameter to that button. My concentration is needed to balance the mix, which is my primary purpose at that time.

There is a grain of truth there though, I'll have to put more time and effort into making sure that every gig gets advanced! Then I can set myself RTFMing revision... so I at least know how I would do a proper mix on an 02R/96 if my brain was big enough and hands fast enough Sad
Logged

Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2008, 10:09:33 am »

I think with digital you have a much different mix of "can do it right now" vs. "have to set that up beforehand".  For instance, with analog it's very easy and quick to suddenly grab a knob to send a source to the echo for one beat or grab two EQ or pan knobs at once.  On the other hand, with digital it's very easy and quick to add a compressor/gate/graphic to a random channel on the fly, because it's probably already there but not turned on yet.  With analog if you suddenly decide you need a compressor you have to scramble around behind the board to insert it, probably having to also wait for a break in case there's something unplugged at the other end of the insert cable.

David A. Parker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1358
    • http://www.lostandfoundsoundco.com/
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2008, 12:03:56 pm »

I don't know about other digital mixers, but with yamaha, a double tap on one button and you have aux on faders, the faders become the aux send, and it sure is handy for dialing in effects. actually, some of the smaller yammie digitals have aux on fader only. Tap aux one, or whichever aux you want to work on, and the faders become the aux sends for that channel.
Logged
David Parker
Lost and Found Sound
http://www.lostandfoundsoundco.com/

Patrick Tracy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2406
    • Boulder Sound Guy
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2008, 02:03:18 pm »

Scott Helmke (Scodiddly) wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 08:09

I think with digital you have a much different mix of "can do it right now" vs. "have to set that up beforehand".  For instance, with analog it's very easy and quick to suddenly grab a knob to send a source to the echo for one beat or grab two EQ or pan knobs at once.

That's what I find so useful about analog. Sometimes I mix like I'm playing an instrument and decisions are made in fractions of a second. It takes about the same amount of time to find a channel aux send as it does to find a layer button, and then the moment is gone. And there are times when I want to pan one channel around while triggering an effect on another when inspired. Other times the scene memory and other features would be advantageous enough that I'd give up immediate simultaneous access to effects and pans. The ideal would be digital with analog style interface.
Scott Helmke (Scodiddly) wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 08:09


On the other hand, with digital it's very easy and quick to add a compressor/gate/graphic to a random channel on the fly, because it's probably already there but not turned on yet.  With analog if you suddenly decide you need a compressor you have to scramble around behind the board to insert it, probably having to also wait for a break in case there's something unplugged at the other end of the insert cable.

Although more filters per channel could be handy I've always gotten by with single swept mid Mackie eq. As for dynamics, I solved that by getting more units, enough to have one on every channel. Need compression? Reach over and turn the threshold down. And I can look at the rack and see all the gain reduction meters at a glance.

What I mix on is a personal choice, like the guitars I play. My gear suits my needs and the kinds of jobs I do. It's analogous to the choice between using an electronic piano versus a real piano. Obviously, way more performances are done on electronic pianos compared to grand pianos because they are just more practical, easier to move, stay in tune, you can change its sound from a grand to a out of tune honky tonk to a tack piano with a button, but for a significant minority a real piano is the only real choice.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 15   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.024 seconds with 13 queries.