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Author Topic: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks  (Read 33328 times)

Henry Cohen

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2008, 08:22:10 pm »

Re: Toby Mills' last two posts . . .

Be it Cisco, Alvarion, 3Com, Symbol or enterprise level offerings from D-Link, I've found that these products typically have better RF sensitivity, traffic management and access control via their configuration utilities than the consumer level Linksys APs. So, when I hear someone clamoring for high security (why?), and better QoS, the pro products come to mind simply because the consumer products did not offer that functionality/performance. Today's Linksys products maybe more inline with enterprise level feature sets; I've not looked at them recently.
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Steve Syfuhs

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2008, 02:22:23 am »

Enterprise functionality, or something similar in CE equipment is fairly easy to come by nowadays.  Cisco is actually discontinuing the Linksys line because of that.  Actually, they may not be discontinuing it completely, but changing production schedules to produce fewer designs, I can't remember what my rep said.  Basically the similarity in feature sets is causing the linksys brand to sell better.  Cisco has gone to crap in the last few years, so I've been moving towards HP's procurve line...cheap as hell and reliable enough to work on the international space station.

For the security question, I have a wild imagination...don't wanna see anything similar in real life happen Twisted Evil.  The suggestion of a clustered AP node is brilliant though.
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not you, me

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #112 on: June 17, 2008, 02:02:44 pm »

Here's how I feel about this tired analog vs. digital argument.

Back when word processing on computers was first being developed, there were those people who said, "what in tarnations is this comp-u-tar thing-a-ma-bob? my typewriter can do the same thing and i don't need to plug it in or buy some stinkin' printer!". and at the time, maybe these guys were right; the first word processors couldn't do a whole lot of stuff beyond type a bunch of words in a sequence and it was big and clunky and ugly and needed a printer. so at the time i'm sure people were having their own analog vs. digital debate.

but computers have gotten so ridiculously good that using a typewriter these days would garner laughs from all your writer friends.

technology evolves and you either adapt or you become extinct.

another thought:

the youngest generation of sound people (myself included) can not remember a time when there were not computers, so when i first started using digital desks, there was nothing to fear. it was just another operating system. if i can operate XP or OSX then I can learn an M7 in a fraction of the time (and i did). the 02R i find a lot more confusing than the newer Yamaha's, which is probably a testament to the evolution and usability of digital consoles.
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Tony "T" Tissot

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A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #113 on: June 17, 2008, 02:55:41 pm »

Jarrett Krauss wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 11:02


what i'm trying to say here is that you are probably older and grew up and always used analog, so good for you, keep it up.

but to my generation, digital is here to stay. and i LOVE IT.



The ageism angle is nonsense.

Remember that "we" (older folks) are the generation that invented, or first applied all of this technology.

There has never been any fear of, or lack of understanding about anything digital.

I built an Altair - before you were born. I still have a working Apple II from the 70s. And Uncle Sam was nice enough to have me working on (ferrite-core memory) computers, even before that.

The problem is accepting devices with work flows that are less than well thought out. (And I am not saying that digital consoles have not caught up - or surpassed analog boards). Us old guys tend to want devices with logical UIs and controls that are designed by people who actually know what the end result should be. Innovation, new work flows? No problem. But not some obviously slapped together digital-for-the-sake-of-digital.

But - It's finally getting great for audio.
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2008, 03:09:08 pm »

Interesting analysis, but for me it's not about how the processing is done it's about my operating needs. Often when I mix it's not just a technical procedure, it's a real-time performance much like playing an instrument, complete with spontaneous moves using both hands to change settings all over the board. In my experience as a musician I found that effects that weren't intuitive obstructed playing. Often those effects were digital but it wasn't the type of processing that was the problem, it was the interface. Eventually I gave up the digital multi-effects and ended up with a bunch of pedals that allowed me to see what was on or off and where each knob was set. That fit how I played and, similarly, an analog board with a big heavy rack of outboard allows the visual and tactile interaction that is right for my mixing style. When digital mixing gear with equivalent controls and display reaches my price range I'll jump on that bus.

That being said it is time for me to learn how to operate an 01V as an introduction to digital mixers. And in the studio I mix exclusively on a computer and I don't see any need for faux mixing surfaces and the like. Point and click works just fine.

Kyle O'Connor

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2008, 06:38:13 pm »





Trying to think of 2 things I would absolutely have to do at the same time while mixing a show??? Something that had to be done immediately, not 2 to 3 seconds a part. The only thing i can think of is say like bringing up a DDL at the same time as pullling the gain on a clippin vocal or something similar?? Which can be done at the same time on any dig desk i've been on.

Anybody think of any other immediate withing one second needs?

Just curious
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Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #116 on: June 17, 2008, 10:11:50 pm »

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 13:55


Remember that "we" (older folks) are the generation that invented, or first applied all of this technology.

There has never been any fear of, or lack of understanding about anything digital.

I built an Altair - before you were born. I still have a working Apple II from the 70s. And Uncle Sam was nice enough to have me working on (ferrite-core memory) computers, even before that.


Well, you are not "we".  You are 0.001% of the population as far as long-term digital literacy goes.  I'm maybe 0.1%, though I do like doing email with older relatives, once they've gotten used to it.  Email from somebody who grew up writing real letters is usually much better formatted and thought out than what I get from most other people.

There's a lot of resistance in many industries to computerization, which to some extent reflects poor implementations (I didn't quote that bit of your response, but you did mention it) but which also shows somewhat of a fear of learning new systems.  A lot of learning computer-based systems is just learning the mindset and approach, and a surprising number of people don't really want to have to do that.  And it's not that it's that difficult - most people are plenty smart enough.  It's that it's strange and weird and different, and there are a lot of new (or worse, repurposed) words to learn just to understand how it works.  Small wonder that a noticeable number of people will fall back on bluster when confronted with a major fork in the career path.

Quote:


But - It's finally getting great for audio.


Yup.  Just about any recent digital mixer is plenty good enough from the sound quality side.  What you get in the way of problem solving tools in your shiny new digital console is amazing.  

Micky Basiliere

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2008, 10:53:32 pm »

Like Digital Rack mount preamps for Guitar,Digital Mixers are just a fad and will fade back to Analog!
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #118 on: June 17, 2008, 11:18:04 pm »

Micky Basiliere wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 21:53

Like Digital Rack mount preamps for Guitar,Digital Mixers are just a fad and will fade back to Analog!

Yeah, I'm sure that as soon as gasoline reaches US$6 or so, we should all invest in buggy whip and surrey manufacturers. Wink

Tim Mc
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Jamie Taylor

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2008, 11:25:50 pm »

Scott Helmke (Scodiddly) wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 12:11

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 13:55


Remember that "we" (older folks) are the generation that invented, or first applied all of this technology.

There has never been any fear of, or lack of understanding about anything digital.

I built an Altair - before you were born. I still have a working Apple II from the 70s. And Uncle Sam was nice enough to have me working on (ferrite-core memory) computers, even before that.


Well, you are not "we".  You are 0.001% of the population as far as long-term digital literacy goes.


Agreed. The younger part of generation Y has had computers around them (us) since preschool.  It's natural that we're going to be more comfortable around them because they were involved in our formative years.
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