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Author Topic: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks  (Read 33314 times)

Dick Rees

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 12:41:16 pm »

Hmmmmmm.....what to say.....

Do you have trouble with the rest of the world driving on the "wrong" side of the road???? Rolling Eyes  
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Eric Dodson

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 12:53:33 pm »

I got on the digital bandwagon about 10 years ago on a Yami O2R and never looked back. Oh sure, analogue isn't going away and I'm just as comfortable on a analogue console but I saw back then where things were going and got up to speed... Now being comfortable on most digital surfaces, showing up as a BE at a club, festival, ect, there's no drama and my job is secure now and in the future....
Get with the times. Like or not; Digital Is Here To Stay!
Good Luck.
Eric Dodson
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JoshRice

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 12:58:34 pm »

I moved from analog world to digital about a year ago.  I can tell you that it does take a few times out to get the hang of it, but if you want full control of each sound source, which it seams as that is the case, the digital will provide you with all of this control in one place.  As Even pointed out, every channel has everything you need right in the board.  Hey, if you don't want to use the internal gates, comps, effects, etc.  There are still insert jacks and auxs to send to your outboard gear.  Then you would not need to use the screen for anything but basic setup and eq freq. selection on the parametric.  

Oh yeah, next time you need to re-route inputs and outputs on your analog desk, I would love to race you with my digital.

All in all, I think you need to look at what the bigger bands are using who are making money and doing shows with much larger budgets then your low budget fair.  They are using digital for a reason.

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Scott Smith

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 01:05:07 pm »

Well, there is nothing wrong with being "old school"...but digital is obviously taking over.  I prefer knobs too.  I'm a rock'n'roller, and I'm also one of those people who still drives a classic convertible as well.
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 01:15:20 pm »

Mike Christy wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 09:36

How would a digital board reduce event bidding/quote amounts, when 2% or 3% of $4000 digital equipment cost, is more than 2% to 3% of $2000 analog equiment cost? The dig/analog gear weights about the same, with the large gas-hogging gear being cabinets and power amps mostly... you always need them, dig or not.

Mike



Easily....LABOR and CARTAGE!

Let's see, for me I could have brought my Yamaha PM3500 which I think the list price for that was something like $39,900 or something.  Of course I then would need a couple racks with power supplies, 8 channels of graphics, a ton of dynamics and multi-effects, all the patch cables to connect them, etc.  The Power suppies are 80 lbs each and there are two of them, the console in the case is proably close to 350-400 lbs.  The racks alone are 125 lbs each, all the patch cables probably weigh a good 100 lbs, the processors and EQ proably add up to 100 lbs.  It takes two people to lift the lid off.  It also takes a lot longer to patch everything in.

Or, I could take a tiny little O1V96V2 with the VCM effects and  16 extra mic pres all in one rack.  The entire rack probably weighs about 150 lbs.  I don't have to patch anything other than the snake, it's already done.

I get around 10 miles to the gallon with the trailer totally full with analog gear.  I get closer to 13 miles to the gallon with the weight savings using the tiny digital console.  

While some people look at the cost of the gear when bidding one events, I don't.  I look to see what is needed and what the budget is and try to find a compromise that will make me profitable.


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Ryan Jenkins
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Hasse Queisser

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2008, 01:18:51 pm »

Mike Christy wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 18:36

How would a digital board reduce event bidding/quote amounts, when 2% or 3% of $4000 digital equipment cost, is more than 2% to 3% of $2000 analog equiment cost? The dig/analog gear weights about the same, with the large gas-hogging gear being cabinets and power amps mostly... you always need them, dig or not.

Mike




I went from a Soundcraft MH3 with two 26-space racks of outboard to a Yamaha M7CL-48 at FOH.

MH3+case = 160 kg
M7CL+case = 100 kg

Outboard racks+multipins = 180 kg
M7CL outboards = 0 kg

After this summer I will replace the old copper snake with an optical snake system. That will save me another 200 kg.

Total difference = 420 kg. That's almost half a TON folks.

Almost the same thing is true about the second M7CL in monitor world (a little less racks and copper though). Total weight reduction in the truck ends up at about 750 kg. Now lets talk about the space saved....

Not only will digital consoles take up less space and weigh a lot less, they are also cheaper to buy when you start adding outboards and multipins.

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Mike Christy

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 01:24:49 pm »

Of course, the PM3500, but Im refering to something like a Soundcraft GB series or a A&H, approx. weight as a digi, could eaily be done with those boards as well. Sorry for the confusion.

I do look at the cost of gear when bidding, and size the gear to their budget/needs. It is dynamic when working with the client. I think we agree with this.

Regards,
Mike

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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2008, 01:50:15 pm »

Mark Hadman wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 08:35


If providers are going to insist on deploying these abominations I'm going to have to start saving for one of those APB pro-racks or something. Even the Midas XL8 looks like a big pile of expletive from where I'm sitting.


I sort of agree - but only when I get "surprised" with a desk I am not familiar with. My fault for not checking.

But.... "can you please help me?" always works to save me from my ignorance. I have NEVER found a sound guy that won't.

It's rare in my league to get anything upscale decent - PM5, (and never an XL8) but LS and MC are starting to pop up.

If - (when) - I can justify the cost - it's digital all the way (even without the inexpensive, fully integrated, remote pre's with full recall, digital snake).
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Lester Moran

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2008, 01:51:30 pm »

Dave Dermont wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 17:24

Anyone who has been to Yamaha Digi Console School will tell ya...

Select - Tweak - Store

I hope the Yamaha people don't get pissed I have revealed their secret.


Cat's outta the bag now.

Seriously, Yamaha's factory-staffed digital console school was two days well spent for me.  I did one day on the PM5D and followed by one day one the M7CL.  It's become a necessary skill-set and one might as well get comfortable with it asap.

Les

p.s. I also remember when I thought email was "stupid".

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Dave Bigelow

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2008, 02:11:13 pm »

Wow, like other have said, times are changing. You'll want to get used to digital (or travel with your own FOH) if you want to keep going.

I love the ability to throw a comp or gate anywhere without reaching for cables. Not having to chart shared channels after soundcheck is a nice feature too.

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