ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 15   Go Down

Author Topic: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks  (Read 32820 times)

Mark Hadman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 112
Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« on: June 09, 2008, 11:35:33 am »

I'm exceedingly proud of the contribution that I make to the sound of a nine-piece touring band. I battle smilingly against impossibly tight small-festival time constraints, whittle channel lists down to the barest minimum and beyond, and laugh in the face of gear inventories that would embarrass an underfunded high school. Come showtime I mix with both hands, constantly fighting to balance 3 lead vocals, ad-libbed BVs, 3 brass, drums, keys, bass and various guitars whilst adding carefully chosen spot delays and reverbs to a constantly evolving setlist. I sing and dance and smile while I'm doing it, and I get respect from the local crew.

But when I walk up and see a digital desk at FOH I feel physically sick. I'd rather mix from side-of-stage on a B*******r analogue desk with one semi-para per channel, budget FX and no gates/comps/31s than do another show from the best position in the house on another Yamaha digi or anything else that doesn't give me one controller per function. Seriously, honestly, really, I've been there and done it several times.

If providers are going to insist on deploying these abominations I'm going to have to start saving for one of those APB pro-racks or something. Even the Midas XL8 looks like a big pile of expletive from where I'm sitting.
Logged

Evan Kirkendall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6824
    • http://www.evankirkendall.com
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2008, 11:46:30 am »

I love mixing rock and roll on digital boards. Smile

Gates and comps where ever you want them, fully parametric EQ anywhere, built in EFX, and anything else you could ever want. Analog desks are cool and all, but Ill take a digital desk any day. Smile





Evan
Logged
Not all change is good change.

Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2008, 11:47:35 am »

Thank you for sharing.

Hopefully your band doesn't have any of those new-fangled electronical guitars yet - those things will really cause you grief.  Wink

Eric Simna

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 208
    • http://eric.simnaweb.com
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 11:58:25 am »

I know what Mark's sayin'.  I am a lot alike.  I'd rather have nothing than have to page through screens on a small LCD to set everything.  And I do mostly musical theatre where the automation could help.

We just like being able to look at a channel and know exactly whats going on, without having to turn a page.

That being said, I haven't had the chance to mix on a digi yet, and like the idea of the feature sets.  But I'd still rather racks of equipment than the small "next to nothing" footprint.
Logged

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2639
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 12:15:57 pm »

Sorry to hear that our touring career will be coming to an end in the next few years!

I just did one of those little festivals with six bands and and a super low budget using a tiny Yamaha digital desk and it was terrific.  I had all the control I needed with regards to dynamics.  The Rev-X reverb was great sounding and the different tap tempo delays that I was able to do made for same tasteful effects.  I only had to run a snake and a single 20 amp circuit to FOH.  There was one band that brought thier own BE and he was able to walk up and mix with no problems at.  

I was better able to meet the budget constraints because it was way less labor to setup, saves over 800 lbs in the trailer and that saves in fuel costs which are out of control.  When it was time to tear down the rig we were able to get the whole P.A down and get on the road in less than two hours!  I am trying to find a new place to hide my big analog board so that I wil have more room for small digital consoles that will make me a ton more money!
Logged
Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think.  Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"

Please visit my website at http://www.murphygirl.com

Dave Dermont

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2011
    • http://www.geocities.com/livesound101/
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 12:24:10 pm »

Hey Mark,

I respect your opinion and it's good to have favorites, but you need to get with the freakin' program.

No, really.

I understand the mixing with both hands and all that, but how hard is it to press a 'select' button?

Do you EQ more than one channel at a time too? THAT I gotta see!

Anyone who has been to Yamaha Digi Console School will tell ya...

Select - Tweak - Store

I hope the Yamaha people don't get pissed I have revealed their secret.

Rock On!

Logged
Dave Dermont - Chief Lizard, LAB Lounge

WARNING: Dates In Calendar May Be Closer Than They Appear

Mac Kerr

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10223
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 12:25:39 pm »

I hope your retirement fund is well paid up.

Mac
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10223
Experience vs rumor
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 12:30:35 pm »

Eric Simna wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 11:58

I know what Mark's sayin'.  I am a lot alike.  I'd rather have nothing than have to page through screens on a small LCD to set everything.  And I do mostly musical theatre where the automation could help.

We just like being able to look at a channel and know exactly whats going on, without having to turn a page.

That being said, I haven't had the chance to mix on a digi yet, and like the idea of the feature sets.  But I'd still rather racks of equipment than the small "next to nothing" footprint.
When you have worked on a digital desk, let us know what you think. what "pages" do you think you have to turn? In what way do you think you need to look at a screen? You don't look at a screen to make adjustments on an analog board, why do it on a digital? You are still turning dedicated knobs on all but the very cheapest.

Mac
Logged

Mike Christy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1185
    • http://www.piscessound.com
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 12:36:07 pm »

Digital, sounds like the path I want to go, I should go, but with eye sight fading, I like the big knobs and silkscreen on my outboard gear. My distand of being at the mercy of some embedded programmer and having everything in one critical package is unnerving as well. Im also thinking the the brown outs in 100 degree weather on Saturday I experienced would have caused alot more havock with digital than just temporarily reseting my PLXs...

How would a digital board reduce event bidding/quote amounts, when 2% or 3% of $4000 digital equipment cost, is more than 2% to 3% of $2000 analog equiment cost? The dig/analog gear weights about the same, with the large gas-hogging gear being cabinets and power amps mostly... you always need them, dig or not.

Mike
Logged
Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9010
Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 12:38:13 pm »

Me thinks you are "mixing" to much.  You can adjust levels as you want to with any digital console WITH BOTH HANDS Laughing  on the fly and in real time.

Yes you can only tweak individual channel controls one at a time, but you should not be messing the individual channel controls all that often.  If you are then something else is wrong-either with the band (source) or the mixing style.

I did a gig once many years ago that had two "sound guys".  Right after this gig I moved my crossover.  I ususally kept it at FOH.

One guys "job" was to run the console.  The other guys "job" was to constantly-I MEAN CONSTANTLY adjust the house eq and crossover to "make it sound right" Shocked   DO WHAT?  Yeah-I don't make this stuff up Rolling Eyes

The sound was a total wreck.  I would put the crossover back to where it should be and the house eq, and a few minutes later he was screwing with it again.  I was running monitors and could tell at monitor land the house was screwed up.

It was amazing that nobody had shot these guys yet Laughing   The band had a HUGE local following and that is just they way they did it-or so I was told.  It just goes to show what good drugs will do for ya Laughing
Logged
For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 15   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.04 seconds with 20 queries.