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[Alan Singfield]

Adam Robinson wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 00:46

Oh, and I can't even count the times I've properly splayed 850s.

How do you properly splay 850's, Adam?

I'm not being facetious, i genuinely want to know your thoughts on this, as i have an 850EF (please don't tell me to upgrade to 850Z, the owner will not pay for it) system that i'm just not getting the results i think it may be capable of.

I have seven boxes per side, ground stacked as three over four.
Space is already an issue...

Thanks in advance.

[Adam Robinson]

They need about a fist of space between the front angles to couple properly.  

3 over 4?  You have 7 KF850s per side?  or are the 4 underneath subs?

[Alan Singfield]

7 per side, there are 6 SB850 underneath each side below the stage.

I can't fly the KF850 as the points are currently taken up with two stacks of KF853/BH853 per side to cover the balcony. This takes the points just about up to their rated load of 500kg each.

any advice is welcome, and appreciated.

[Adam Robinson]

how big is the venue?

[Alan Singfield]

1900 on the ground, standing

700 seated in the balcony

around 150 feet stage to back wall

approx 50 feet wide, stage 32 feet wide at widest point.

the subs cannot be moved from their current position, the stage is a proscenium arch type with wings downstage for the pa. it's an old listed building, so architecturally it cannot be altered.

[Alan Singfield]

I've started a new thread about the KF850, since it has nothing to do with the original post in this thread.

Apologies for the inconvenience.

[Brad Ferguson]

1. Do you ever find yourself helping SEs troubleshoot their systems? If so, how often?

Far too often.  Tonight for instance, I had to troubleshoot the club's monitor sends from FOH.


2. Has troubleshooting ever taken time you needed for more critical tasks?

Absolutely.  Troubleshooting takes my time away from doing more critical things since I am also a tour manager.


3. Have you ever found yourself discovering problems that you felt should have already been dealt with by the SE and/or sound company?

Yep.  I find blown components sometimes, phase issues, dead channels, dead snake lines... the list goes on,

4. Do you find that SEs generally take a proactive role in problem solving, or do they allow you to diagnose/fix problems?

It's about 50/50 on that one.  Some are really great when I find a problem and they deal with it.  Others, well..  I just get frustrated and fix it myself and move on.

[Chris Hindle]

Brad Ferguson wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 20:56

It's about 50/50 on that one.  Some are really great when I find a problem and they deal with it.  Others, well..  I just get frustrated and fix it myself and move on.

There was a club here in town that the band I was with at the time played about twice a year. Turns out we were there twice a year because after the soundcheck, with house amps thermalling, It seems that I was the only tech that had a vacuum in my truck, and half a clue on why the house system was shutting down every 10 minutes ! I ended up doing the yearly maintenance on the dust bunnies ! Years later, I stopped by with some friends, and the bartender tells me "Yep. once Dave and the Panic Band played, the system worked like a charm for another 6 months"

[bo putnam]

Another chapter to the theme...

We started load-in at 4pm, Friday - the HE was no-where in sight, and the manager, by phone, said "...he was going to be a bit late."  No sweat.  They graciously gave me access to the sacred soundbooth ("NO ONE ENTERS SOUNDBOOTH WITHOUT MANAGEMENT") so, I started.

Working this club before, I knew the subs have never been right, so I dug in there first.  Odd - although they had always been too strong, they were not firing.  Traced the signal path, FOH racks, stage racks, amps.  Found unplugged signal.  Why?  Everything seemed to be working, so with everything muted, I dropped the amp gains and inserted the signal cable; slowly raised the subs gain.  It was working, but not correctly - my ears and Smaart agreed.  So...

There is an old BSS Omnidrive at FOH.  Not too familiar to me, but not too hard.  Paged through the settings - all looked sensible, except, the sub.  Yikes...

Subs HPF set at 59Hz (odd) with L-R -24db (fine), but the LPF was set at 384Hz (really odd) with Butterworth -6dB (odd); while the mains were all L-R -24dB.  Also, the sub had a 21.x ms delay, vs 0.27 ms for the mains (UPA-1P's).  I have no idea the legacy leading to this awful configuration, but no-wonder things sounded bad.  Obviously, someone couldn't get it sorted and merely unplugged the beast...

Since the band was nearly loaded-in and soundcheck expectations and rehearsal nearing (still had to get the channels of foldback sorted out...), lacking time for a proper test I went into triage mode: set all delays the same, all slopes to L-R -24dB, subs HPF to 25Hz and LPF to 95Hz, and adjusted drive gains as needed.  Got a damned good sound and response.  I delayed the system to the backline and just went with it.  We had the best sound I've heard there.  For the first time the subs were complimentary and not overwhelming - they have always been wrong, but not that night.  

When the HE arrived, I showed him my patching - I bypassed the Behringer "Ultracurve" EQ ( ) using my DN370 - and used my outboard racks.  I walked him through what I found with the sub and DSP.  He was inquisitive and appreciative.  

We had a great show - we got lucky.  We had no feedback issues with great SPL for the artists.  My grab is that resolving the heavy LF resonance / sub coupling issue caused by the improper sub deployment (and hollow stage) removed a great deal of sonic interference for the artists.  That gave me better control not only of the foldback, but also of the house, and the sound was great.  The place was packed and stayed packed.  Exuberant and appreciative fans.  

The HE complimented me on the sound a number of times through the night, and thanked me for taking to time to dig into the issue.

After the show, he asked if we could save my settings...  

[Jørgen Johansen]

Jon,

does that even work? That looked pretty awful.

[ProSoundWeb Community]