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Author Topic: Club band building new (replacement) sound system  (Read 21940 times)

Evan Kirkendall

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 01:26:19 AM »

Ditch the DSP all together. dbx's new driverack is just another way to make money. The QSC boxes have built in EQ, limiters and crossovers. Thats all you need. And, the 01v96 has parametric EQ on the outputs and packs the ability to delay the outputs. Between the mixer and speakers, you can do just about everything that the driverack can do.

Get the matching QSC subs and you will be set. Dont waste your money on CV shit. It's DJ grade stuff and the QSC boxes will serve you a lot better. Or, check out the Yorkville LS800p. It's got a little more get up and go then the QSC sub. They are highly favored around here.

As others have said: ditch the sub mixer. Just get the ADA8000. That will give you 20 XLR inputs, and all the gates/comps/efx you will ever need. Plus it will clean up your setup a lot.

Personally, I would ditch the wireless vocal mics for hardwired mics. I just prefer working with wired mics. There are so many less issues to deal with. No batteries to change, no frequencies to deal with, and no drop outs. Just get some Shure SM58s and be done with it.

For drum mics: Get the Sennhieser e604's, and an Audix D6 for kick. Do you really even need over heads? You said you are playing rooms for ~200 people. I wouldnt bother micing overheads. Maybe hi hat, but not overheads. There will be enough bleed elsewhere.

For guitar mics, get the Sennhieser e906's. They sound great with  very little EQ.

For snakes, save some money and go EWI. Check out www.audiopile.net. Very good value snakes on there, and they will last.


Good luck...



Evan

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Paul Valenti

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 01:27:18 AM »

We are REALLY lucky in that we have become really good friends with a lot of the club owners where we work. So as far as the set-up and break-in of the sound system goes, we can go into a club on sunday and spend as long as we like getting the 'bugs' worked out.
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Paul Valenti - Guitar/Vocals - BANDANA
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Paul Valenti

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 02:07:16 AM »

Thanks Evan,

Sounds like you are thinking that (sort of in answer to the question I posed regarding wether they were enough) 2 of the HPR181i's will be enough power at 500watts continuous/1000watts peak. That's good to know as it saves me some money that I can use elsewhere (read as used smarter).

I don't think I can take your advice on ditching the DriveRack as it addresses the problem of having to spend time with an RTA at every gig, every time we set up, and also takes care of feedback and eq needs at the push of a button (basically). I'm getting it in the interest of making my job easier and less stressful.

The ADA8000 certainly sounds like the way to go. As with any new piece of gear suggested to me I've downloaded the manual and will do some research on them and some other more expensive alternatives I've found.

Can't do away with the wireless stuff. Actually that's not completely true. The singer and I both NEED to be wireless as it adds to the show and we move around quite a bit. The bassist has a wireless on his guitar and so getting him a wireless headset would make it possible for him to move around and not worry about getting back to the mic for a vocal part. He doesn't sing nearly as much as the singer or I and so technically I COULD part with that wireless vocal (he's already using an SM58). The keyboard player really doesn't need a wireless vocal mic. I could definitely nix that one in favor of a wired headset or an SM58 and a stand. I was sort of happy though about being able to do away with mic stands to a large degree...so I'll have to think about that. Part of this purchase is more a 'comfort' thing for me than it is practical...although as mentioned before, practicality IS a consideration.

I'm fairly happy with the AKG D112 that I'm using now. I am also looking at the Yamaha SubKick to use in addition to the D112. It's more of an idea thus far though. I've heard some really great things about the SubKick.

As for the guitar mics...I've already got an e906 on my guitar and you are absolutely correct...they ROCK! I'm really happy with the sound it gives and find that I rarely need any channel eq adjustment at all.

I'll check out that website and those snakes...thanks!

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Paul Valenti - Guitar/Vocals - BANDANA
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 02:55:07 AM »

Paul Valenti wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 02:07

I don't think I can take your advice on ditching the DriveRack as it addresses the problem of having to spend time with an RTA at every gig, every time we set up, and also takes care of feedback and eq needs at the push of a button (basically). I'm getting it in the interest of making my job easier and less stressful.



I (and many others, I'm sure) will bet money on the auto-EQ causing you many more problems than it attempts to solve.

!!!DON'T PRESS THE BUTTON!!!

Give it a try in-store sometime and hear the, umm, "wonderful results" Rolling Eyes ...I guarantee you'll shudder to think you actually had considered using the function in a live situation.  Use the EQ's in the 01V96 to combat feedback if it pops up (there are a number at your disposal).
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joe mead

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 08:56:41 AM »

Takes care of feedback with a push of a button.Oh no im out of a job.I own the Qsc 181s and 153s. The 153s are heavey,you might think of going with the 152s for ease of set up.Ive played in bands and ran sound from stage.Never say never,but i hope not again in my life time.Good luck
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Paul Valenti

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 09:26:35 AM »

Yeah I'm talking about the presets and the RTA function when I said that, not the auto-eq. I've read enough on the Auto EQ's to know that no respectible engineer likes or recommends using them.

What I mean is that I can use the RTA function and mic to 'ring the room' and set the EQ (and therefore the speakers) to the room acoustics and then SAVE that information. Since we play a lot at the same clubs (assuming that the PA is always set up the same at those clubs) after I EQ the room and save the preset the first time I'll have it so I don't need to spend time doing that the next time we play that room.

Make sense now?
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Paul Valenti - Guitar/Vocals - BANDANA
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Paul Valenti

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2008, 09:57:53 AM »

Hmmm...according to the spec sheets the 152i's weigh in at 100lbs whereas the 153i's weigh in at 118 lbs. For the additional power and 3-way rather than 2-way configuration I think I can put up with the extra 18 lbs of weight.

Our current speaker system (EV Eliminator subs and tops) weighs in at 87 lbs (net weight) on the subs and 76 lbs on the tops. The 153's weigh 42 lbs more than our current tops and the 181i's weigh in at 127 lbs vs our current subs that weigh in at 87 or a difference of 40 lbs. So in short the new speaker system out weighs the old one by 82 lbs (roughly). Now I know I said weight, portability and size were evaluating criteria here. BUT...lets now take into account the fact that I don't have to use processing (since the mixer has all that covered), or power amps in the rack (here's where the new speakers blow the other system away completely).

Now we're talking SERIOUS savings in weight, space and portability! Currently we are using Mackie power amps for the mains (an M2600 on the subs [bridged] and an FR2500 on the tops). The weight of the FR2500 is 56 lbs and the M2600 is 55 lbs for a total of 111 lbs. So far switching to the QSC's has saved us a total of 29 lbs and we haven't talked about the difference in weight of the monitor system (IEMs vs traditional stuff) or the EQ's I'm not going to need to carry around.

I think in this case we can ignore the extra speaker weight for the savings elsewhere.

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Paul Valenti - Guitar/Vocals - BANDANA
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Pat Cognitore

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2008, 10:18:34 AM »

Paul Valenti wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 09:26

What I mean is that I can use the RTA function and mic to 'ring the room' and set the EQ (and therefore the speakers) to the room acoustics
You may be expecting too much from this feature.  

I agree with what Evan said about keeping it simple...just use the mixer and the powered speaker's features to set things up.  In combat situations, particularly with you performing and running sound (ugh), you will be thankful that you don't have more things to fiddle with.  The bottom line is: if your band sounds good, this system will sound good.
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joe mead

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2008, 10:32:08 AM »

Looks like your system will be more than fine for what you guys are doing.Last week i helped run sound for a band with a small system.Even with a small system they realized they needed someone to mix and control feedback getting the most out of the system.Set it and forget it might be all right if all your putting though the pa is vocals,but when you add drums and all the instruments, i doubt you will be able to do it with out some one mixing.But good luck
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Brad Weber

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Re: Club band building new (replacement) sound system
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2008, 10:32:17 AM »

Paul Valenti wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 01:18

Regarding the subs...I went with the CV's because I generally like to have about twice as much power in the subs as the tops. Maybe that's wrong. I originally wanted to just get the QSC HPR181i but after seeing that they actually have less power than the tops (HRP153i) and keeping in mind that size and portability are of concern...I decided that ideally I'd want 4 of them and that would be too much stuff and take up too much space in most of our venues. If I'm thinking wrong on this please correct me.

Okay, you're thinking wrong!  Seriously, this was the battle in the 70's "We've got a 25,000 Watt system", "Well ours is 50,000 Watts!".  As Don Davis would point out, if the two systems gave the same result then all you were actually doing is bragging about how inefficient your system is.  It's not how much power it takes to get the result, it is the result.  A speaker with a higher sensitivity needs less power to produce the same level.  So look at the results and not the power required to get them.

I share the concerns about all the wireless and combining IEMs with mixing on stage.  Almost all wireless just seems to be too many potential problems and compromises at this level.  Just popping out one ear bud for a moment, even if out in the audience, does not really let you hear what the audience is hearing.  And when everyone moves around, do they all consider where they are in relation to the mains or room modes or reflecting surfaces and how any of those might affect what the audience hears?  If you really feel that you need to move around that much then you might want to consider having someone else mix, maybe someone who can concentrate on just that.
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Brad Weber
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