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Author Topic: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives  (Read 13005 times)

Rob Timmerman

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 01:59:06 pm »

The Community speakers are double the weight of the Bose speakers, so that may be a factor.  Taking a quick look at the spec sheets for both speakers, it appears that the R5 has better pattern control, and a more even coverage pattern.  It also appears to have slightly better low frequency pattern control than the 402, although this isdue mostly to the tighter coverage pattern.  Take a look at the vertical polar plots for the Bose 402 (available on pro.bose.com).

The R5 will also get significantly louder than the 402, if that's a factor.  Low frequency output will be comparable from both boxes, although you'll get more output from the R5 as it's a more efficient box.  Significant LF energy in a pool environment is asking for trouble, though, as it's a very reverberant environment.

Either box will probably work, but since the devil is in the details, which one will work better will depend on the specifics of the system design.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 06:03:51 pm »

If you take just the "basic" spec the Bose is 120V x 60H and the communities are 60x60.  
So from that comparison, the designs do not offer the same coverage.

The R.594 might be a closer choice to the pattern of the Bose-IF THAT is what is actually needed for the particular job. We do not have enough details to determine that.

HOWEVER, if one thinks that you have a 60
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Craig Hauber

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2008, 11:40:48 am »

I'm thinking the community R.25 series are more of the better "equivalent" to the 402.  R.5 would take-on the 802.  And in a pool environment the community has far superior moisture and corrosion resistance.  I've seen my fair share of warped, cracked sun-bleached bose with corroded internal wiring and dead cones in outdoor or damp environments.
Also some of the community WET series are "bose-ish" in appearence and even better in environmental resistance.

(I also couldn't imagine the bose multi-cone "toss sound everywhere" approach in a reverberant sports facility!)


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Craig Hauber
CSA Productions Inc.
Ventura-Santa Barbara CA
www.csaproductionsinc.com

Jason Lavoie

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2008, 11:57:15 am »

Craig Hauber wrote on Sat, 15 March 2008 11:40

I'm thinking the community R.25 series are more of the better "equivalent" to the 402.  R.5 would take-on the 802.  And in a pool environment the community has far superior moisture and corrosion resistance.  I've seen my fair share of warped, cracked sun-bleached bose with corroded internal wiring and dead cones in outdoor or damp environments.
Also some of the community WET series are "bose-ish" in appearence and even better in environmental resistance.

(I also couldn't imagine the bose multi-cone "toss sound everywhere" approach in a reverberant sports facility!)



that was my take on it exactly..
I could have gone with the R.25's but the R.5's fit the budget and I figured it wouldn't hurt to have a little extra kick for the rare times that the place fills up with noisy fans.

FWIW there is a separate part of this job that is a 10 sheet curling rink with 16' ceiling where 4 bose 802s were specified (one in each corner) and I've again recommended to replace those with R.5's
Still not sure if I want to put them in the corners or cluster them in the center.

Jason
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2008, 12:31:04 pm »

In a reverberant space the two worst places you can place loudspeakers are in the corners (by far the worst) and the next worse is in the middle facing out.

I would try and detail exactly where you need coverage (I honestly have no idea regarding a curling rink-regarding players and spectators and who really needs to HEAR-not everybody does usually) and try and get the loudspeakers close to the people and use large devices that offer pattern control so you do not drive the reverberant field.

Splattering it everywhere is the worst thing to do-I don't care what the ads say that state a single loudspeaker can cover a pool facility well. Shocked
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Jason Lavoie

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2008, 02:47:25 pm »

In this case the curling rink also serves as convention space where they'll need paging etc. so they really do need coverage everywhere.
with that in mind, do you still feel that the middle is bad?
if you have a large square room (about 150'x150') with a 16'ceiling and you aren't able to put in a distributed system with many ceiling speakers, what would be your choice?

thanks.
Jason
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2008, 04:20:32 pm »

Why would you not be able to put in a distrubuted system in that room?  Distributed can take on different forms (ie type of loudspeakers).

Without knowing any more information, I would think zones would be a good idea for different events, turning off loudspeakers when not needed.

So are you saying that with a 150x150 room the consultant was going to place a loudspeaker in each corner and face it in and by some MIRACLE people near the middle would be able to hear well?

If so, then I would not trust ANYTHING that comes from that person.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Jason Lavoie

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2008, 04:28:04 pm »

yup.
the spec for that room was a Bose 802 in each corner, and a recommendation for acoustic paneling on the walls (to tame the >90deg pattern of the 802s)
knowing full well that there was no budget for the paneling.
I think he was just covering for when he knew it would still sound crappy.


the reason I say distributed would be hard is that it has a suspended low-e ceiling and getting above that to suspend speakers, and then cutting through it to get them out would be prohibitively expensive.

Jason
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2008, 04:39:35 pm »

So how do you plan on getting the wire to the center?


WIth that low of a ceiling you are going to have a problem getting even coverage-without some sort of diestributed approach.

If the budget was for 4 802's, then I would suggest turning down the job, and telling them why.  So when they try something and it does not work, you can come back to them and tell them you told them and they will simply need to spend more money in order to get the job done correctly.

You will be blamed if the job does not work.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Suggestions for BOSE alternatives
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2008, 05:28:49 pm »

Here is a quick model I did of the room.  I could not find EASE data on the 802, so I substituted a similar pattern loudspeaker.

The basic concepts apply.  You will be loud in the corners, quiet in the middle and lots of interferance in the overlap areas.
index.php/fa/14728/0/
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
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