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Author Topic: Achieving Clean Kick Drum  (Read 20060 times)

Dennis Malek

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2008, 02:02:06 pm »

Guys,

I'm sorry I may have miss lead you.  The gain settings I described was for the MX-1500 in stereo mode running tops of 8 ohm load and the PLX-3402 running 4 ohm load in bridge mono mode.  I invert the sign to the MX-1500.

Now when I swap out the PLX's with MX's, I must run the gains MAX on the two bridged MX's for subs and un-invert the signals to the tops MX and leave the gains 1/2 wall.  Now I don't have all the power I need on the subs with the MX's, BUT the sonic quality returns.

I hope this helps understanding.
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Dennis Malek

Dave Rickard

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2008, 12:00:25 am »

Are you using 3 conductor, balanced cables on *everything* in your signal chain before the amps?  

And how are you reversing polarity on the MX's?  

Input, output, or both (which would be reinverted)?
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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

Dennis Malek

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2008, 12:23:41 pm »

Hello,

I have Input and output inverting of the signals two ways with the same results.
1.  Using the invert push buttons on my crossover.
2.  Flipping the +/- speaker wires

I have tested with and without my 100 FT snake.  No sound quality difference.  I'm using unbalance short 6 FT signal cables to the amplifiers with no hum present.  
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Dennis Malek

Dennis Malek

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2008, 12:36:59 pm »

Yes Sir I hear you.  And actually at first I was thinking that it's a phase problem as well.  It has that kind of poor bass response when you have an out of phase wiring problem.  
But I have checked and rechecked the wiring nine ways to Sunday. It's correct.
I have positioned the amplifier rack in front of the speakers in the middle of the room (Stereo Center) and panned by turned down one bass amp gain at a time.  The bass always gets much lower when one side or the other is turned off.  When walking in front of one sub across to in front of the other sub, the bass is loudest when between the two.  I have intentionally flipped the +/- speaker lead to just one of the sub and the bass level drops dramatically at stereo center.  I will not be able to do any more testing till after Memorial Day.  I sincerely appreciate all of the time you give me.
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Dennis Malek

Rick Doersch

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2008, 01:01:01 pm »

I can't believe with all this posting and and replies no one has suggested the OP get a controller and put EAW's recommended eq and high and low pass filters.

http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Processor_Settings/Current_Produ cts/Subwoofer_PROCS_rev2.pdf

I know that before I had a controller I was never satisfied with the low end. If it kicked it woofed.
With just a electronic xover you have no way of spreading the low pass of sub away from high pass of mid/high which is required when you turn the sub channel up to get the lows going strong without a bump at xover point. You can also get cabs to line up in time if you have some way to measure or a get ear and lots of time on your hands  
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Rick Doersch
Hidden Mountain Productions
www.hiddenmountainprod.com
Dealer for Lex Products

Dave Rickard

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2008, 04:30:34 pm »

Rick Doersch wrote on Sun, 08 June 2008 11:01

I can't believe with all this posting and and replies no one has suggested the OP get a controller and put EAW's recommended eq and high and low pass filters.

 http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Processor_Settings/Current_Produ cts/Subwoofer_PROCS_rev2.pdf

I know that before I had a controller I was never satisfied with the low end. If it kicked it woofed.
With just a electronic xover you have no way of spreading the low pass of sub away from high pass of mid/high which is required when you turn the sub channel up to get the lows going strong without a bump at xover point. You can also get cabs to line up in time if you have some way to measure or a get ear and lots of time on your hands  


Good suggestion, Rick.

I'm sure the processor settings will improve the system performance, and that was the original dilemma....BUT will it cause the two amps to behave similarly?  

The disparity in performance when switching amps is the OP's new dilemma.  Any thoughts?

Dennis Malek wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 11:45

FOUND THE PROBLEM WITH MY PLAYBACK SYSTEM!!!!

First, I would like to thank all of you that helped me by provided food for thought as I worked through this problem.

I decided to first connect up my old single 18" bass horns in place of the LA128's leaving everything else alone.  Sounded like crap with the same poor muddy bass response I was experiencing with the LA128's.  

Next, I changed out the pre-amp modules, EQ's, Crossover, etc. and replaced with my old 1980's pre-amp modules 18 db/octive(Audioarts Engineering).  Still sounded bad.  

Next, I replaced the two QSC PLX-3402's with my old two QSC MX-1500A's and Presto, THE MAGIC WAS BACK!  Clean sounding Bass response.  Unbelievable sonic quality difference between the PLX and MX series of QSC.  Now I did not have all the power that I want with the MX-1500A, but good quality bass was recognized.  I purchased the PLX-3402's to get the additional power I would need for the LAS128's.

So, with that said, do my PLX-3402's need repair?  Or is this the nature of the beast?

Thanks Much
Dennis


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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

Mike {AB} Butler

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Re: Achieving Clean Kick Drum
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2008, 08:40:08 am »

Rick,
I'm with Dave here. The OP was talking about the dissimilarities in sub performance when switching between 2 different amplifiers by the same manufacturer. That IS the main issue, here, IMO.
Certainly you are correct that a better DSP runs a good chance of bringing the subs alive. But having 2 amps that cause MY subs to perform dramatically different would be a major issue for me. Herein why all the discussions.
Regards,
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Mike Butler,
Principal, Technology and Operations,
Dascott Technologies, LLC

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