ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: How NOT to EQ  (Read 8475 times)

Jordan Ochocki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 62
How NOT to EQ
« on: January 16, 2008, 11:43:44 am »

These are screenshots taken from a Mackie DX8 controlling the in-house system at the performing arts center I work at.index.php/fa/13675/0/

This is the sub output eq, the other outputs are just as messed up.
Logged
Jordan Ochocki

Sioux Falls, SD

Vince Byrne

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 317
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 11:59:01 am »

That is hideous. And +/-15dB range no less.  Shocked
Logged

Jeff Babcock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2313
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 12:53:01 pm »

Looks great to me.  A great way to make money for your reconing business that is..... Shocked

Many times systems would be better with NO eq than with the mess that so often ends up happening to them when "experts" touch them.

Michael 'Bink' Knowles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4279
    • http://www.binkster.net/index.shtml
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 11:32:08 pm »

That's awful looking.   Shocked

Sound is about listening.

Reality check: if THAT AWFUL EQ makes the speakers sound good, then so be it.

-Bink
Logged
Michael 'Bink' Knowles
www.binkster.net

Iain_Macdonald

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1116
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 02:08:50 pm »

Hi,

That curve indicates to me, that someone is looking for output that the product is not giving them. (Or else they have a lack of knowledge). If you have a number of cabinets running off this feed, you might wish to check whether they are all matching polarity. I've seen this curve in a center where speakers were incorrectly wired. Don't just think that the plugs are wired correctly, so it must be OK. You might wish to check all the speakers. The clue is in your phrase: This is the sub output eq, the other outputs are just as messed up. A few hours with SMAART might be well spent.

They do have a xover to the subs etc., don't they????

Iain.
Logged

Jordan Ochocki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 62
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 08:08:54 pm »

Iain,

There is a x-over on the sub (albiet from a Bose system controller).  Unfortunately for me, the install is all Bose, supplemented by JBL SR-X's on sticks on the stage.  I've moved two of the Bose subs to the center of the proscenium, and the other two (dead hung in the ceiling) have been disconnected.

Currently, I have control for all speaker positions in that DX8.  Also, all Bose speakers are being processed by Bose system controllers.  Near as I can tell, these just apply some EQ and x-over (which I can bypass and do in the DX8 if I so desire).

I do plan on downloading the trial of Smaart to attempt to EQ and make sure delays are properly set (I say try because I have only tried Smaart one other time, and that was several years ago).

FYI, these curves were put in place by a previous Facility Manager.  He played pink noise and viewed the results on an RTA, then attempted to flatten the response.

Any tips on improving low-end intelligibility in a concert hall environment?

-Jordan
Logged
Jordan Ochocki

Sioux Falls, SD

Iain_Macdonald

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1116
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 04:28:00 pm »

Hi,

In no particular order
1) Are you sure that the Bose controllers are in circuit.
2) Are all the speakers, all the same polarity.
3) How are they fed from the console. Is correct polarity maintained.
4) What does it sound like with the Mackie unit bypassed.

Any tips on improving low-end intelligibility in a concert hall environment?

Where to start? It depends on; the acoustics of the venue, the shape, placement of speakers, quality of the speaker system, quality of the source signal.

Iain.
Logged

Tom Manchester

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3034
    • http://www.electrosoundsystems.com
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2008, 09:53:02 pm »

Here's one I pulled from an install at work that was EQ'd by the installers. +15 at 20hz is great for 100 watt 12" EV speakers!

index.php/fa/14063/0/
Logged
-Tom
Electro Sound Systems

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9010
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2008, 10:01:24 pm »

Well at least they turned up the HPF to "counteract" the boost down low.

It is also not in a smile but rather a "twisted" grin-to just play with your mind Laughing
Logged
For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Guest

  • Guest
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2008, 03:44:05 pm »

Wow!

That DX8 has the oddest EQ curve I think I have ever seen. I can't imagine a real-world scenario where that would actually make things better, except to undo the effects of some other wacky processing elsewhere in the signal chain.

I like the comment about the "twisted grin". I laugh on the inside when I walk into an amp room and see the gear 'smiling', beckoning me..."I'm so glad you're here to fix me!"

That TOA 1000 seems a bit melancholy, though. Maybe he's jealous of a DN370 that stole his thunder.
Logged

Pascal Pincosy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 978
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2008, 08:32:26 pm »

I often get asked by hobbyists to help tune their systems at small events. Usually, being more interested in having fun during my time off, I will just flatten out the EQ and hand control back to the owner, who is often amazed: "Wow it sounds so much better! What did you do?"  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
Logged
Know:Audio
--------------------------------
US Distributor: Trabes/MG Srl
Speaker Lifts-Truss-Roof Systems

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2477
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2008, 09:37:03 pm »

That's what bypass buttons are for!
Logged
Brad Weber
muse Audio Video

Caleb Dick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 851
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 03:25:54 pm »

I mixed at a church once right after a Southern Gospel group.  The graph was a very extreme smile (never mind the old cheap Peavey system couldn't handle the slightest bit of sub-50hz or above-12.5khz).  I've seen many systems 'smile' at me after 'tuned' by others, but this one sounded bad beyond belief.  

Bypass button - I love you!  

Caleb
Logged
Caleb Dick
AVE
-----------------
Why waste time with second best

Experience is something you get just after you need it

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9010
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2008, 03:30:22 pm »

We had a music store in town that would "preset" your eq on a powered mixer for "free" Shocked

No kidding, they would adjust it for a perfect smile Sad

Why?  Because that is the way it is "supposed" to be adjusted.

OK then, why not just put a filter in there and not let the stupid end user "adjust" it?

There is no teaching some people. Rolling Eyes

Don't confuse me with the facts.
Logged
For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Joel Barry

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2008, 05:43:40 pm »

Wow... I'm glad I'm 2000 miles away from whatever is coming out of that system Wink
Logged

Sam York

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 239
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 05:53:14 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 14:30

We had a music store in town that would "preset" your eq on a powered mixer for "free" Shocked

No kidding, they would adjust it for a perfect smile Sad

Why?  Because that is the way it is "supposed" to be adjusted.

OK then, why not just put a filter in there and not let the stupid end user "adjust" it?

There is no teaching some people. Rolling Eyes

Don't confuse me with the facts.



I was mixing in a crappy bar once, and the singer of a band who'd never played in there before, using a mic of mine I'd brought, strode over to my (side stage) desk before the set (no soundcheck, he hadn't sung a note into the mic) and turned the bass and treble up full on the mixer, and the mid down to about 9.00. 'That's how my vocal works' he said. Needless to say I put it back to what I thought was appropriate.

At periodic intervals during his set he'd come over and without my permission twiddle a few more knobs on the mixer, then go and sing the next song when everything was to his satisfaction. Except as soon as he turned his back I'd put it back. His girlfriend was sat near me absolutely wetting herself ('oh, he always does this - and everyone reacts like you do'!)

On a side note I stopped his set early because he was swinging the (my) mic round on the end of the (my) cable, after asking before the set whether he could do it and being told no, asking again, and being told that if he did it his set would stop immediately.

I guess some people are just born to be rock stars  Laughing
Logged

Eric Kuhn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: How NOT to EQ
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2008, 06:58:55 am »

Hmmm I dont use anything that goes to 20, or even 25 for that matter, so I dont even bother sending those to the amp rack. One needs to remember that if your boxes cant do it, dont waste the power in the amp rack.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 20 queries.