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Author Topic: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?  (Read 9814 times)

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« on: November 19, 2007, 12:01:23 pm »

I have been doing some research and listening to a couple different medium sized line arrays.  I have yet to go listen to the Martins but a trusted mentor has recommended them highly for me to listen to.

He has told me that they outperform the EV XLC127-DVX considerably.  He says the Martins get much louder and have a more full sound, particularly in the lows.  Both of these boxes are in the size/weight range that I am particularly interested in for the sake of cartage and ease of handling, etc.  I would assume that just about any artists playing events at the level that we provide for would be MORE than happy to play through either box.

I will be critically listening to the Martins next month to get a feeling for them.  In the mean time I have looked at the Martin website and found that they claim them to have less max output than EV claims their box to have even though they are horn loaded and have a little high power rating.  EV doesn't have actual sensitivities easily found on their website but the Martins claim 103/106/109 LF/MF/HF.

For those of you that have used both do you find that the real world performance of the Martins is truely a little better then the XLC or do you find them very similar or ????

Obviously the Martins are a couple pennies more expensive and aside from cross-rentability in a particular market are there other reasons that you feel the Martins warrant the high costs?

With my current Camco Vortex 6 amplifiers I can easily run 6 per side of either the Martins or the EVs so powering is not an issue.

As you read and respond to this please also take into account that my main competition to this new rig, which ever I decide on, use either KF850/SB850s or A-Line Acoustics AL-10 line arrays with A-line acoustics subs(two different companies.)

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a bunch, Ryan
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Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think.  Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"

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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2007, 12:40:30 pm »

Hi Ryan,
I got a chance to hear these boxes at a few large outdoor festivals this year and even mix on an array. A local company absolutely loves these boxes, and I think they sound pretty good as well.

Here are a few of the things Ive noticed about them:
-Clean, clear sound at lower levels
-Mids become honky as you crank them, and on axis is sometimes painful to listen to. EQ may fix this, I do not know since I was not mixing. But, it was an ongoing thing I noticed.
-They dont get ultra loud.

One of the bands that I saw was working with a 7 box per side hang.
index.php/fa/12435/0/

Their engineer was nailing the limiters during the whole set, and it was no louder then ~103dbA @ FOH. Up front it was pretty loud, but toward the back it just sounded strained. Here's a video so you can hear what Im talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyHeVYnAvUg
(sorry about the crappy video quality)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/HarfordSound/crowd.jpg
(Taken from in front of FOH)

The crowd was around 2000, and I was really expecting more... A 6 hang v-dosc rig totally destroys the Martins in output and SQ, but they are also a lot more $$.

I also got a chance to hear them at a Jazz festival. They did a much better job with the lower SPL jazz, but again, the honky mid sound came about when you got right on axis with them.

Finally, I got to mix on their bigger brother 2 days in a row at a large rock and roll gig last year. The band I was mixing opened the festival both days, so I got a chance to really get a feel for the rig.

I had 2 hangs of 10 boxes to work with, and plenty of subbage:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/HarfordSound/hfs.png

The bass I got from the rig was pretty impressive and I was quite happy with the overall sound. Again, I was only around 103-106dbA @ FOH, and that was about as much as she wanted to do. I was able to tame the horn honk, as it was not as bad with the larger boxes. Over all, I was pretty pleased with myself.

EDIT: Sorry, I was having a brain fart about the W8L's. I recall it being around 110dbA for the headliners, so yes, these boxes had much more output then their little brothers...

But as I said earlier, I just dont feel that the M8CL's are a rock and roll box. They are more suited for lower SPL gigs IMO.

Good luck and I hope this was helpful...




Evan

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Dan Brown

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2007, 01:25:01 pm »

Ryan,

EV XLC127DVX has a stated sensitivity of 95/101/111.

http://www.electrovoice.com/tech-library.php?pt=3
scroll about half way down and you will find the EDS sheet you are looking for

sincerely,
Dan Brown
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Steve Martinez

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2007, 02:47:21 pm »

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MartinGajta

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 03:34:12 pm »

  Although I didn't work on both boxes (EV and Martin) I worked on
Martin (w8lc) and listened same boxes when others doing and I have
to admit that I'm fascinated with this box.I didn't have any problems
with mids,7 box per side (six+downfills)4 wsx subs (per side),many thousand
people really loud,and nice sound.
 Since EV have 95db (bass section) and you use vortex6 in both cases
you'll have 8db more with Martins.I also listened them on jazz,very
nice sounding box.
 So my choice would be Martin...With 7 per side I would go in 5000 ppl
with no worry.
 
 And one more thing I respect Evan,but my experience is totally different.
Maybe his amps were less powerful,maybe setup or crossovers,but I'm impressed.
Btw amps were Martin/Lab Gruppen and xta crossovers

Take Care

Martin Gajta
Koncert Sistem

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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2007, 03:41:22 pm »

MartinGajta wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 15:34

 
 And one more thing I respect Evan,but my experience is totally different.
Maybe his amps were less powerful,maybe setup or crossovers,but I'm impressed.
Btw amps were Martin/Lab Gruppen and xta crossovers

Take Care

Martin Gajta
Koncert Sistem




Same setup for these boxes as well. Factory everything. They could probably do 5,000 people, but it wouldnt be loud.



Evan
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Jim Cutshall

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 04:18:37 pm »

I own a Martin W8lc rig and am VERY happy with it.

As you mention they are more $$ than the EV's but I've used the older EV Xlc's (not the new D series) and would definately say the Martin's will out do them.

My current setup is W8lc's, WSX subs  and Crown Itech's.  When I was having Itech problems, I tried the Camco's and Lab's - Camco's didn't do it for me but the Lab's kept up with no problems.  Martin amps are re-badged Lab's; their processors are re-badged XTA's just so you know.

If Evan used a rig that wouldn't do over 103 then I am going to say it wasn't deployed correctly or something else may have been wrong / going on as I can easily do whatever it has been asked to do.  Inxs and Nelly both used them on their last tours and I know neither one of them were 105 at FOH.  They are also used for a local alternative radio station festival at the ampitheatre (12 per side) where the level's at FOH easily get to 110+ without any problems (think Breaking Benjamin, Staind, Head-PE, etc for band types).

Jim
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Brian Ingwell

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 04:45:19 pm »

I'd have to agree with Jim.

We've got 20 W8LC's for going on 5 years now and they've been fantastic.  The sensitivity and low end output trumps anything in the mid size format that I've heard.

The beauty of Martin is their boxes are very smooth in the high end.  Using 1" drivers instead of a 2" driver gets rid of a lot of that large exit "bark".  Some people then mistakenly equate this to "not as loud".  However, the W8LC can certainly get plenty loud when need be.

We regularly use 4-6 boxes per side on outdoor festivals with B level nationals (think Romantics, Gin Blossoms, Blue Oyster Cult, etc.) and have coverage and SPL for 2,500-5,000 people no problem.

We power with QSC Powerlights and process with Ashly Proteas.

Just thought I'd share my experiences.

Cheers,

Brian
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Adam Robinson

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 04:54:26 pm »

Ryan

This is only one guy's opinion, but I've never been impressed with the EV line array.  It's never been disastrous, but I've always found their horns a bit hard to tame, especially for my show where the vocals are very high-mid heavy.  In all the touring I've done this year, I think I've only been on one XLC rig that I liked, and props should go to the guys at Allen Audio who brought me a well deployed and excellent sounding XLC rig.  Unfortunately, all of my other experiences with this rig have been less than stellar.  

On the other hand, I've never had a bad time on the W8LC rigs I've used.  I can't remember having any issue with output as I run my show between 102 and 104A.  Even during our usual massive drum solo section where I bump the entire level of the kit (and peak around 107) I don't recall running out of headroom on the rigs I was on.  
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Dan Brown

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Re: Martin W8LC....Spec ws. Real World Performance?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 07:58:58 pm »

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 14:41

MartinGajta wrote on Mon, 19 November 2007 15:34

 
 And one more thing I respect Evan,but my experience is totally different.
Maybe his amps were less powerful,maybe setup or crossovers,but I'm impressed.
Btw amps were Martin/Lab Gruppen and xta crossovers

Take Care

Martin Gajta
Koncert Sistem




Same setup for these boxes as well. Factory everything. They could probably do 5,000 people, but it wouldnt be loud.



Evan



Evan,

You state that you and another engineer were in the limiters.
If this is the case were these the XTA processors limiters or some comp/limiter at FOH?

Also what do you think is "Ultra Loud"?

Would you consider your SLS920 boxes "ultra loud"?
I would say they can get pretty loud but sound like crap when they get that loud and aren't easy on the ears.

Also if you feel like shows should be run in the 100dbA range then your ears are still young and you will learn.

Anyway, for all accounts the Martin rigs are great and sound very good.

EV Xlc is a decent rig although I have never heard one that I was totally happy with.

sincerely,
Dan Brown
REACH Communications
612.207.1070
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