ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?  (Read 14578 times)

Harris Wangberg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« on: May 14, 2012, 12:42:37 am »

Hey guys, I'm new to the live sound arena, and needing some help.  I just purchased some dual 12 pa speakers from seismic audio, rated for 600 watts rms, 1200 peak, and 4 ohms 45 hz - 20k. My guitarist has a peavy ipr 1600, at two 4 ohm speakers it is rated for 530 watts per channel.

Today we were setting the gear up, our equipment is all run through an old fender 100 watt power mixer. When I turned the bass channel up to only about 9 o clock on the mixer to get some smooooooth grooves from the bass guitar, immediately the guitarist told me to shut it off, then insisted the bass guitars open note is too low for the speakers to handle, (it's a B1) and that he read countless testimonials online about how putting bass through pa speakers can blow the speakers. And further insisted the bass cab will be more than enough to carry the bass.

Sounds fishy to me. B1 is around 60 hz, I don't see a problem. and his peavy shouldn't be sending a clipped signal to the speakers if we don't crank it. am I missing something?

any insight would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.
Logged

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 12:34:33 am »

Hey guys, I'm new to the live sound arena, and needing some help.  I just purchased some dual 12 pa speakers from seismic audio, rated for 600 watts rms, 1200 peak, and 4 ohms 45 hz - 20k. My guitarist has a peavy ipr 1600, at two 4 ohm speakers it is rated for 530 watts per channel.
I'm not sure how much value the Seismic Audio specs have.  For example, 1,200W Peak would normally relate to 300W "RMS" while 600W would be the Program rating.   And they may be rated 45Hz -20kHz, but without any limits, such as +/-3dB or -10dB, that is an essentially useless specification.  I personally have trouble trusting products from manufacturers who don't even seem to understand the specifications they publish for their products.  The reason I point this out is that you cannot really tell what low frequency response that box can supposedly provide.

Today we were setting the gear up, our equipment is all run through an old fender 100 watt power mixer. When I turned the bass channel up to only about 9 o clock on the mixer to get some smooooooth grooves from the bass guitar, immediately the guitarist told me to shut it off, then insisted the bass guitars open note is too low for the speakers to handle, (it's a B1) and that he read countless testimonials online about how putting bass through pa speakers can blow the speakers. And further insisted the bass cab will be more than enough to carry the bass.

Sounds fishy to me. B1 is around 60 hz, I don't see a problem. and his peavy shouldn't be sending a clipped signal to the speakers if we don't crank it. am I missing something?
It is common to run low frequency or full range sources through the mains provided they can handle the response and levels you are looking for them to provide.  Because that is not always the case, it is also common with entry level sound systems in smaller venues to just use the bass rig and not run the bass through the system.
 
I don't know what bass you have, but a standard four string goes down to E1 or around 41Hz and a standard five or six string to B0 or around 31Hz.  However, much of the energy is in the overtones and it is often possible for the brain to 'fill in the fundamental' from the first few overtones, for example if you hear 62Hz, a bit less 93Hz and even less 124Hz the brain will likely "fill in" there being a related 31Hz fundamental even if that 31Hz sound is not actually present or is way down in level.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:06:52 pm by Brad Weber »
Logged

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2119
  • College Station, Texas
    • Daniela Weaver Photography
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 10:15:50 am »

Hey guys, I'm new to the live sound arena, and needing some help.  I just purchased some dual 12 pa speakers from seismic audio, rated for 600 watts rms, 1200 peak, and 4 ohms 45 hz - 20k. My guitarist has a peavy ipr 1600, at two 4 ohm speakers it is rated for 530 watts per channel.

Today we were setting the gear up, our equipment is all run through an old fender 100 watt power mixer. When I turned the bass channel up to only about 9 o clock on the mixer to get some smooooooth grooves from the bass guitar, immediately the guitarist told me to shut it off, then insisted the bass guitars open note is too low for the speakers to handle, (it's a B1) and that he read countless testimonials online about how putting bass through pa speakers can blow the speakers. And further insisted the bass cab will be more than enough to carry the bass.

Sounds fishy to me. B1 is around 60 hz, I don't see a problem. and his peavy shouldn't be sending a clipped signal to the speakers if we don't crank it. am I missing something?

any insight would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

Yes Harris, you will blow your speakers if you run bass through them. Luckily for you, you will probably blow them up running vocals, guitars, and keys through them too. And you will definitely blow them if you let a DJ use them!

Point being, those are bottom of the line chinese made junk. Sell them ASAP and get something better from craigslist or a swap meet. Peavey actually makes some very good products for your situation. That's where I would look. I'm not well versed on peavey's line up, but search around. You'll quickly find which pieces are worth spending money on and which are not.
Logged
Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

Harris Wangberg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 10:38:58 pm »

I'm not sure how much value the Seismic Audio specs have.  For example, 1,200W Peak would normally relate to 300W "RMS" while 600W would be the Program rating.   And they may be rated 45Hz -20kHz, but without any limits, such as +/-3dB or -10dB, that is an essentially useless specification.  I personally have trouble trusting products from manufacturers who don't even seem to understand the specifications they publish for their products.  The reason I point this out is that you cannot really tell what low frequency response that box can supposedly provide.
It is common to run low frequency or full range sources through the mains provided they can handle the response and levels you are looking for them to provide.  Because that is not always the case, it is also common with entry level sound systems in smaller venues to just use the bass rig and not run the bass through the system.

There a limit rating on the back of the speakers and +/- 3 sounds right, but that's only a guess, the speakers are now at my guitarists house. I remember seeing it, not knowing what it really meant and discarding the information.

@Tim, I'll admit I got caught up in their marketing.  Their mission statement is noble, and the ratings they claim for their sensitivity, wattage and frequency were all better than other speakers I found in that price range and the 30 money back no questions asked policy helped tip the scale. Price was the deciding factor. My co worker asked us to play at a party this upcoming weekend and my budget was about 300 dollars.  After purchasing them I discovered this site and haven't read much good about them. If they don't blow during the show I'll consider it money well spent. I needed something now.

Since that my original posting I've read elsewhere that most PA's can handle it, but most are better than what I have in both quality and design, (larger drivers, better construction).

Thanks guys.
Logged

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2119
  • College Station, Texas
    • Daniela Weaver Photography
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 12:24:47 am »

There a limit rating on the back of the speakers and +/- 3 sounds right, but that's only a guess, the speakers are now at my guitarists house. I remember seeing it, not knowing what it really meant and discarding the information.

@Tim, I'll admit I got caught up in their marketing.  Their mission statement is noble, and the ratings they claim for their sensitivity, wattage and frequency were all better than other speakers I found in that price range and the 30 money back no questions asked policy helped tip the scale. Price was the deciding factor. My co worker asked us to play at a party this upcoming weekend and my budget was about 300 dollars.  After purchasing them I discovered this site and haven't read much good about them. If they don't blow during the show I'll consider it money well spent. I needed something now.

Since that my original posting I've read elsewhere that most PA's can handle it, but most are better than what I have in both quality and design, (larger drivers, better construction).

Thanks guys.

Honestly I would bet that the horns will pop before the woofers. That's pretty typical of cheap stuff. The other part of the equation is that there is probably no crossover on the woofers so that when the horn does go, you might not notice it for a while because "some kind" of high frequency is still coming out of the box.

Go ahead and use them until they blow, then have a bonfire with the corpse. Consider it a "stupid tax" and move on. The best scenario is that you will make your money back before they go...
Logged
Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

duane massey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1469
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 10:59:06 pm »

Just to chime in here, if the bass is loud enough without going thru the PA, great. This is very common with smaller bands in smaller rooms. People tend to forget the primary function of a PA is to make the performers audible and (hopefully) balanced. You don't need to mic the guitars, drums, horns, tambourine, etc, if they are already loud enough (or too loud).
Logged
Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19798
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 11:51:26 pm »

Just to chime in here, if the bass is loud enough without going thru the PA, great. This is very common with smaller bands in smaller rooms. People tend to forget the primary function of a PA is to make the performers audible and (hopefully) balanced. You don't need to mic the guitars, drums, horns, tambourine, etc, if they are already loud enough (or too loud).

I'll see your tambourine and raise you a.... COWBELL!  ::)
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Jordan Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1310
  • Location: Collingswood, NJ
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 12:59:58 am »

I'll see your tambourine and raise you a.... COWBELL!  ::)
Well at least it's not a banjo...
Logged
Jordan Wolf
<><

"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8718
  • Atlanta GA
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 07:46:22 am »

immediately the guitarist told me to shut it off, then insisted the bass guitars open note is too low for the speakers to handle, (it's a B1)
I think you have a bigger problem than running the bass through the PA.  If the bass does not have the low E string-then that is quite a limited instrument.  most bass palyers like to have all 4 (or more) strings.    Maybe there is some reason the low E string has been taken off??????

The real answer is "it depends".  In this case it depends on how loud you turn it up.  If you don't run it to loud-then running the bass will be just fine.

If you turn it up then you could blow them.

How loud can you turn it up?  NOW it gets a lot more complicated-real quick.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Chuck Simon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Pittsburgh, Pa.
Re: will putting bass through pa blow speakers?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 08:14:16 am »

I think you have a bigger problem than running the bass through the PA.  If the bass does not have the low E string-then that is quite a limited instrument.  most bass palyers like to have all 4 (or more) strings.    Maybe there is some reason the low E string has been taken off??????

The real answer is "it depends".  In this case it depends on how loud you turn it up.  If you don't run it to loud-then running the bass will be just fine.

If you turn it up then you could blow them.

How loud can you turn it up?  NOW it gets a lot more complicated-real quick.

Ivan, you do realize he is talking about a 5 string bass, right?

As Duane said, the bass is usually loud enough in small rooms with most bands and you probably won't need to put in in the PA.  I wouldn't.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 08:21:38 am by Chuck Simon »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.052 seconds with 21 queries.